balancing of sticky cams

[InvisibleMan999]

no...say what you mean and mean what you say,  spare us the nonsense.

Well it's not nonsense. It's just me throwing out ideas for people to consider and think over. They're ideas that I may not have fully thought through, and likely some of them got flaws.

As far as my personal plan for cams in the first version, I think we should leave cams alone but make the gas mask client side and then go from there. Making a client side mask eliminates a lot of the advantage of host cams. After we test that for awhile we can consider making bigger changes later on.

[Farley4Fan]

Why not network cams?  If you want to set up a network of cams then you take these.  They don't have gas properties, but they allow you to see various parts of the maps depending on what map you play on.  And they allow you to see that area even if you are on the other side, on top of that you get 5.  Most maps have about 5 or less real choke points that would be good to watch from the safety of say, a vent.  Sticky cams are fine on their own, how about a new gadget called network cams?

[Westfall]

Why not just call it "CamNet for Spies"?

[Gawain]

it would be overpowered in maps with large rooms, and underpowered in maps with small rooms (only little part of the map is seen; easily detected and removed by mercs). the spies are not supposed to know everything, they just got other ways to recon and stay undetected. for instance, mercs should not be detected (on a regular basis) in large distances with no line of sight.

[goodkebab]

When introducing new gadgets,  in game design you really have to consider consolidation and keeping things simple and concise.  This keeps the learning curve low, and the cost of creating the assets to a minimum.

There wont be any new kind of sticky camera ala "camnet" ....if it is possible to give additional features to an  existing gadget.

[Gawain]

more fancy features =/= better gameplay

[Farley4Fan]

More Balanced Fancy Features = Better Gameplay

Giving additional features to already existing gadgets doesn't make it better.  That would unbalance the gadget, make it more overused, and make it worse.

[InvisibleMan999]

Honestly I don't think the network cam is that useful. I mean, how many cams can you really set up through the level to get a good view. And the fact that you have to be looking through them to see a merc makes them fairly useless.

About the only way I can see netcams being okay is if your partner could view them at any time too, and if they persisted after death, that way you could spend some time setting up a recon network early.

Even still, it's so far fetched, I doubt it's really even feasable. We'd probably be better off having a spy gadget that taps into the merc camnet system. That might add some new fun tactics too, like one of the spies hijacking the camnet in river mall and pointing it at a wall while his partner sneaks in. It'd help to balance levels where camnet is overpowered.

[Gawain]

More Balanced Fancy Features = Better Gameplay

Giving additional features to already existing gadgets doesn't make it better.  That would unbalance the gadget, make it more overused, and make it worse.

there are gadgets in the game that are underused:
-camo
(-snares)
-tazer
-flares
(-spy traps)

overused:
-smoke nades
-sticky cams
-gas mask
-frag nades
(-mines)

so how about balancing existing gadgets before including new ones/new features to already overused ones?

[InvisibleMan999]

there are gadgets in the game that are underused:
-camo
(-snares)
-tazer
-flares
(-spy traps)

I don't really feel like spytraps are that bad, It's mostly just that so much of the merc's gear is mandatory.  I mean, frags, mines and gas mask are basically givens. So I really see it where the merc has a single open slot to take something else. And that's generally either backpack, camnet or traps. 

With mercs, you're forced to make the gadgets awesome to encourage them to be picked, because if you want people not to take frags or mines, the other gadget has to be that good. This means that crap like flares can't exist. In fact, stuff like spy traps probably need a boost to make it worthwhile. I'm thinking for merc to balance the gadgets your list has to look something like this.

Mines, Camnet, gas mask, backpack, frags (all unchanged)
Spytraps (you can now refill them at the ammo box)
CT style MT (yes, as a gadget)
PT style taser
Sniping scope (allows sniping with rifle)

That would give a set of 9 roughly balanced choices and makes it tough to choose one over the other.

[Spekkio]

I don't really feel like spytraps are that bad, It's mostly just that so much of the merc's gear is mandatory.  I mean, frags, mines and gas mask are basically givens. So I really see it where the merc has a single open slot to take something else. And that's generally either backpack, camnet or traps. 

+1 for the 5 slot argument  ;D

[Gawain]

+1 for the 5 slot argument  ;D

count me in, too.

spytraps would be fine if there could be 5 simultaneously (larger initially amount), and if they could get placed vertically. camnet is too strong on some maps, too. (for example, it's balanced on cloub house, and spytraps are a good choice to cover garden entrances.)
btw, i wrote spytraps and snares in brackets, because they might only need a small change if at all. with 5 gadget slots things look differently though.

[kronf]

Why not for example make gas mask default and not taking up equip slot? Everyone is taking it 99% percent of the time anyway. It will of course run out after 30 seconds (no infinite stuff), but will free up an equipment slot you are all struggling for.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

I don't take gasmask, so it doesn't really matter to me.
BUT, i think you guys should make a vote here.
I'd like to have 5 free slots instead of being forced to scroll through the gasmask in my eq every time.
Also, I'd like to see an option to leave an eq slot empty, so you can take some gadgets from your teammate (one at a time, but that's always something). This would give the spies some more edge over the mercs - say both spies have different eq, but they share it. Say one has flashes, the others have smokes, and they can fill up the slot that is left empty with your mates eq.

[Farley4Fan]

Kind of an interesting concept, the whole gas mask always on kind of thing.  Just activating it would use its very own button and not be in the equipment menu.  Doesn't everyone take gas masks anyways?  The only question is what it will do to change the gameplay, will it make the merc too powerful?  Letting a merc take backpack, frags, mines, gasmask, and another gadget - Phoshpho nades? - may be giving a little too much.

I don't know how it would work out in the long run.

And Gawain, sometimes adding a new gadget that has a good use will cut down on the amount of times people take another gadget.  I mean network cams as an addition could make people take them instead of sticky cams.  Maybe if you add another use to them rather than just its networking capabilities, they will be more of another option than just stickies.  Maybe you can make each camera make a noise that would ping the merc's reticule every 10 seconds, of course you would have to trigger the noise yourself though, they wouldn't ping it automatically. 

Think about Club House.  If you put a cam on top of the garden looking down when you first spawn, you have a cam that they cannot shoot and you can watch that area that whole life.  Then if you go into the red room and you put it across the upper hall, in the red room still, you can watch the red room and the upper hall all with one camera.  Then you can put various other cameras all around to be able to watch areas before you enter them or a partner does.  You can use them to be able to coordinate moves, distract mercs, and watch choke points on the map.  IMO they would be really useful, and might even replace stickies in my equip if they were in the game.

The whole hacking the merc's cam net is a neat idea.  That would be cool if the spy could look through it and see in EMF and Motion Tracking through the cam net.