Game mechanics

[Spekkio]

The indicator for when a spy makes noise has been mentioned many times on this forum: if you make a noise that will ping the merc's reticle, you hear the same soft "beep" that they do. It's not subtle at all since it's clearly audible.

Explaining how the sound reticle works and explaining the finer points of gameplay are two different things. Knowing how the reticle functions is basic knowledge and needs to be explained, especially since such an equipment gadget doesn't appear in any other type of game. Furthermore, the tutorial should include a line that "the mercs can hear any and all sound effects that you hear when you perform actions, such as taking your gun out, grunting, and rolling on surfaces."

Furthermore, some "hidden mechanics" show up post-development. It's impossible to test for everything and include it in the tutorial. It's possible that Ubi testers didn't find or know about the vision glitch until after release when hundreds of users start to put in hundreds of hours playing the game. So again, including the basics is enough. If a "hidden glitch" like vision switching shows up, I would hope it gets patched out rather than explained in a tutorial.

Limiting resolution is a dumb idea, if it's even possible to do in a mod.

[iservealot]

why would we limit the resolution? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[Spekkio]

Cuz invisible doesn't want people gaining an advantage due to hardware, not realizing that the UT3 engine by itself is going to strain anything but the newest hardware. Smooth framerate is a bigger advantage than any subtle graphics difference you can make.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

afaik, UT3 will run on my gf 5200, so when i get my gf 6800 back i should be okay.
And one more, how much does the game data take in this moment? like 500 megs or what?

[HeroFromHyrule]

Spekkio is right, Spies hear a very noticeable beep when they make a sound that has appeared on a Merc's reticle.  I believe both Spies hear it if only one of them makes the sound, but I could be wrong on that.

As for special mechanics that need to be learned.  I can see both sides of the argument.  I agree that not everything should be taught in the tutorials.  Many things can be considered advanced techniques that you have to learn by playing, and I think people will understand that and hopefully pay attention enough to learn them as they play.  As for secret things like the vision glitch, I honestly wouldn't mind if it were removed.  As was stated by Invisible, it really makes no sense that changing your vision while landing can help you recovery quicker from a hard landing.  It is definitely a glitch, and should not be included in PS.  But, things like triple nading should stay, as that is what I would consider an "advanced technique."  Look at it this way, in the original Tribes people invented what is known as "skiing."  To skii in Tribes you had to use the jump button as you were going down slopes to skip along the mountains and pick up more speed.  This was not intended as a feature, but it became so popular and so widely used that it is actually one of the things Tribes is known for.  As a result, skiing was actually supported by the developers in Tribes 2, and they even made it a bit more forgiving (though still difficult to master).

I see nothing wrong with advanced techniques that newbies need to spend time to learn and master.

[Farley4Fan]

Yes, it is a glitch.  But it is glitches that require timing, time put into the game, noticing little things, and not being told about it in a tutorial that gives people who play the game the most the little advantages they deserve.  I think that the vision glitch should be change into a roll right when you hit.  If you hold down forward and crouch right when you hit the ground then it should be a little rolling animation to recover from big falls.  It shouldn't be taught in the tutorial, but it should be learned by players as they go.

[monterto]

Yes, it is a glitch.  But it is glitches that require timing, time put into the game, noticing little things, and not being told about it in a tutorial that gives people who play the game the most the little advantages they deserve.  I think that the vision glitch should be change into a roll right when you hit.  If you hold down forward and crouch right when you hit the ground then it should be a little rolling animation to recover from big falls.  It shouldn't be taught in the tutorial, but it should be learned by players as they go.

The only advantage people who play the game most deserve is experiance

[InvisibleMan999]

The indicator for when a spy makes noise has been mentioned many times on this forum: if you make a noise that will ping the merc's reticle, you hear the same soft "beep" that they do. It's not subtle at all since it's clearly audible.

Honestly, I've never heard it as spy on xbox or PC. It might be an EAX thing, I don't know. The merc reticule ping is easily audible, but I've never heard it from the spy side. Then again, I don't really run around much.

Explaining how the sound reticle works and explaining the finer points of gameplay are two different things. Knowing how the reticle functions is basic knowledge and needs to be explained, especially since such an equipment gadget doesn't appear in any other type of game. Furthermore, the tutorial should include a line that "the mercs can hear any and all sound effects that you hear when you perform actions, such as taking your gun out, grunting, and rolling on surfaces."

Well, there's a difference between advanced tactics and glitches. Putting a mine on a high up spot by jumping is an advanced tactic. Shocking someone to take off MT then flash banging is an advanced tactic. In all cases these involve combining two basic mechanics that you already know and using them in a creative way. People can't really cry foul about that sort of stuff. You knew what jump did, and you know how to place mines, so if you didn't put mines up in high spots by jumping on objects, that's your fault for not thinking to do it.

On the other hand, a hidden mechanic is one that can't be logically arrived at. It's a new secondary function that you had no idea existed. And that stuff, if it exists at all, has to be covered in a tutorial.

Furthermore, some "hidden mechanics" show up post-development. It's impossible to test for everything and include it in the tutorial. It's possible that Ubi testers didn't find or know about the vision glitch until after release when hundreds of users start to put in hundreds of hours playing the game. So again, including the basics is enough. If a "hidden glitch" like vision switching shows up, I would hope it gets patched out rather than explained in a tutorial.

Yeah, I agree. Which is why I'm vehemently opposed to porting the vision glitch simply because it was in CT. It should just be patched out entirely.

And I would hope that any glitches discovered in the testing of PS get patched out or properly assimilated into the tutorial as well.

Limiting resolution is a dumb idea, if it's even possible to do in a mod.

Well I was thinking we should do that only for the visions where seeing things is supposed to be problematic, namely MT and EMF. Normal vision can have whatever resolution people want within reason I suppose.

[Spekkio]

I think that the vision glitch should be change into a roll right when you hit.

NO! Autoroll is one of the worst features in this game. I can honestly say that in my 3+ years of playing SvM, I have NEVER once said "well gee, thank god for autoroll or else I might've died there!"

Honestly, I've never heard it as spy on xbox or PC. It might be an EAX thing, I don't know. The merc reticule ping is easily audible, but I've never heard it from the spy side. Then again, I don't really run around much.

It's not EAX related. Pay closer attention. I can't speak for sure if it's on the XBox version, but it is very clearly noticeable on the PC whether or not you're using EAX.

On the other hand, a hidden mechanic is one that can't be logically arrived at. It's a new secondary function that you had no idea existed. And that stuff, if it exists at all, has to be covered in a tutorial.

Like I said, it's likely that said secondary functions don't pop up until post development.

For example, crouch/roll/crouch has a primary use in diving through lasers or making a quick getaway when you were caught while crouching. Its secondary function of being able to move more quickly while not pinging the merc's reticle was discovered later.

[InvisibleMan999]

Like I said, it's likely that said secondary functions don't pop up until post development.

For example, crouch/roll/crouch has a primary use in diving through lasers or making a quick getaway when you were caught while crouching. Its secondary function of being able to move more quickly while not pinging the merc's reticle was discovered later.

Yeah, there's no way we can know about everything. But I'm just saying that the problems need to be patched or assimilated into the game (and thus the tutorial), instead of just remaining secrets like they did in CT.

[HawK]

Cuz invisible doesn't want people gaining an advantage due to hardware, not realizing that the UT3 engine by itself is going to strain anything but the newest hardware. Smooth framerate is a bigger advantage than any subtle graphics difference you can make.

This is something thats easy to fix.
There is currently a Thief mod for the first Unreal Tournament named Thievery UT that uses a system that the more the thief players move into darkness, the more transparant (and in total darkness eventualy invisible) they become, ive played the mod several times and i have to say i love it, also you can with this feature easily implent a light meter and the mercs wont be able to see the silhouette's of spies sitting in total darkness wile there is a lamp at the end of the hallway giving away theyre position.
The website can be found here: www.thieveryut.com and theyre going to try and port it to UT3 when it releases:
http://www.night-blade.com/

Though this is a smart fix, it might look a bit ugly for the spy player to suddenly see his spy disapear, though maybe it is possible for the spy player not to let his spy turn transparant wile the mercs do see it that way.

[goodkebab]

making the spy truly invisible is a lame hack.  It just destroys the credibility of hiding in the shadows.

If you are in a shadow,  but the wall behind you is completely lit...you SHOULD be visible in profile as completely black.

[Spekkio]

This is something thats easy impossible to fix...

Your suggestion doesn't even touch the subject on how to ensure everyone has the same framerate.

[InvisibleMan999]

making the spy truly invisible is a lame hack.  It just destroys the credibility of hiding in the shadows.

If you are in a shadow,  but the wall behind you is completely lit...you SHOULD be visible in profile as completely black.

Yeah, I don't like the invisibility either.

[Farley4Fan]

making the spy truly invisible is a lame hack.  It just destroys the credibility of hiding in the shadows.

If you are in a shadow,  but the wall behind you is completely lit...you SHOULD be visible in profile as completely black.

Yeah, I don't like the invisibility either.

lol but your name is invisible man haha  :D