Visual feedback on HUD

[AgentX_003]

best solution:
-blood splatter when hit (hit indicator only for for visible targets)
-no hit indicator besides that
-no death message, no life counter

we actually discussed that before, and this solution would make everything way more interesting and balanced. if i remember correctly, mr.mic favored this approach, too.

speaking of which , heres another idea that Mic approved of  , I dunno if the idea was forgotten due to being soo busy and what have you but imma reinstate it :

http://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/index.php/topic,1236.0.html

[VaNilla]

best solution:
-blood splatter when hit (hit indicator only for for visible targets)
-no hit indicator besides that
-no death message, no life counter

we actually discussed that before, and this solution would make everything way more interesting and balanced. if i remember correctly, mr.mic favored this approach, too.

I mainly agree, but the idea of having no life counter is awful, unless you mean that you can't see the other team's lives. Being able to see your own lives is very important. As mentioned by frvge, the hit indicator does take away from the tension in the game, which is one of the game's strengths. A blood splatter is better because if you can't see the spy you don't know whether you have made a hit, which is much more logical. Someone discussed leaving a blood trail... no, that would undermine the stealth aspect of the spies.

[Ruro]

You could just shoot into ceilings and shit to find spies. No.

Why do i visualize something really cool when i hear that? Like shooting a glass ceiling to have shards scatter on the spy's visual camo and making it visible (just think GITS anime tank fight at the end if you dont understand my appreciation for this). :D
Also the blood splatter is an OK solution for this. Also the red cross thing is pretty balanced if it only turns red when you actually hit something but i agree that it can be unfair when the merc just shoots randomly and succeeds.
Also no life counter and no death message? Thats awful. You wont even know that you killed someone and believe me it will just add to many ppls frustration instead of their adrenalin level .... 

[comicsserg]

if you don't know if you score it isn't playable. It's still a game but not a real life. My opinion

[AgentX_003]

You could just shoot into ceilings and shit to find spies. No.

Why do i visualize something really cool when i hear that? Like shooting a glass ceiling to have shards scatter on the spy's visual camo and making it visible (just think GITS anime tank fight at the end if you dont understand my appreciation for this). :D
Also the blood splatter is an OK solution for this. Also the red cross thing is pretty balanced if it only turns red when you actually hit something but i agree that it can be unfair when the merc just shoots randomly and succeeds.
Also no life counter and no death message? Thats awful. You wont even know that you killed someone and believe me it will just add to many ppls frustration instead of their adrenalin level .... 

Umm you fail sir, you haven't even looked it says who killed who.. but in a more productive way.. look at the first screen shot on moddb of the mercs visor and ull see it.  EPIC FAIL, gg kthxbai.

[Ruro]

You could just shoot into ceilings and shit to find spies. No.

Why do i visualize something really cool when i hear that? Like shooting a glass ceiling to have shards scatter on the spy's visual camo and making it visible (just think GITS anime tank fight at the end if you dont understand my appreciation for this). :D
Also the blood splatter is an OK solution for this. Also the red cross thing is pretty balanced if it only turns red when you actually hit something but i agree that it can be unfair when the merc just shoots randomly and succeeds.
Also no life counter and no death message? Thats awful. You wont even know that you killed someone and believe me it will just add to many ppls frustration instead of their adrenalin level .... 

Umm you fail sir, you haven't even looked it says who killed who.. but in a more productive way.. look at the first screen shot on moddb of the mercs visor and ull see it.  EPIC FAIL, gg kthxbai.

Because pre-alpha screenshots are just like the full product. Thanks for going off topic...

[VaNilla]

if you don't know if you score it isn't playable. It's still a game but not a real life. My opinion

It could be made an option; it's not what I would prefer, as you can't properly defend a site in a game situation without clear information, but some people might enjoy playing the game in such a way :).

[Cronky]

I mainly agree, but the idea of having no life counter is awful, unless you mean that you can't see the other team's lives. Being able to see your own lives is very important. As mentioned by frvge, the hit indicator does take away from the tension in the game, which is one of the game's strengths. A blood splatter is better because if you can't see the spy you don't know whether you have made a hit, which is much more logical. Someone discussed leaving a blood trail... no, that would undermine the stealth aspect of the spies.

Totally agree with the lives counter.

The hit indicator for visible targets makes sense. You say it takes away tension from the game, but with NO Feedback (Blood splatter only means you have to look for it, which isn't a priority in a fight... unless the splatter is HUGE for some reason) it can just lead the Mercs on with almost NO info. The mechanic also went to add to the Merc Gameplay. It's all about being a Predator, KNOWING that you hit something meant that you KNEW eventually one of two situations were going to pop up. Either:

A) The spy will go to a health station

or

B) The spy will go to his/her friend

Without it, every encounter will (Unless otherwise obvious) die down with the Merc having to check his tracks to see if he actually hit anything, or just assuming he did. Which I think would knock both tension, and fun from the Merc side of gameplay. In my opinion obviously.

Not saying that Blood Splatter is bad, but rather did anyone actually find the hit indicator in CT reducing their tension in a Match?

(The examples used for the bad outcomes are RARE occasions. Just wanted to re-point that out. How many people realistically shot into the ceilings in CT randomly to find Spies?)


...As for the blood trails... Yeah I just shot out two Ideas that were stupid. THE POINT of that one though is that there should be a difference between Health Stations and Teammate healing. (Unless there already was one... doesn't seem like it though)

[VaNilla]

The point of a mercenary is not to be a predator, that's the spies job. The mercenaries job is primarily to defend the objectives. But this is besides the point; personally I feel there's no point of having a hit indicator when a spy is visible to you, as you would just be able to see the blood splatter. And another thing, how would this actually be programmed?

None of the information about how spies heal themselves is relevant, it comes down to how the mercenary knows whether they're hitting their target. I believe the best way of signalling to a mercenary that he's hitting his target is through blood splatter. Then again, if your making long distance shots this may be a problem. Maybe it would be better rather than for the crosshair to turn red, to turn into a cross like MW2, or even just to hear the bullets land on the spy as well as the blood splatter... there's many options which can be explored :)

[Ruro]

...As for the blood trails... Yeah I just shot out two Ideas that were stupid. THE POINT of that one though is that there should be a difference between Health Stations and Teammate healing. (Unless there already was one... doesn't seem like it though)

Well mercs could place a mine on the health station thats the only real difference.
The Mw2 cross like detection is a bit overpowering in my opinion because you could even hit a bunch of ppl behind a wall with a system like that and they would have no way of retaliation. The sound of something being hit while getting blood splattered seems the best way in my opinion. but there is no perfect solution for this unless its tested out in the actual game.

[Cronky]

The point of a mercenary is not to be a predator, that's the spies job. The mercenaries job is primarily to defend the objectives. But this is besides the point; personally I feel there's no point of having a hit indicator when a spy is visible to you, as you would just be able to see the blood splatter. And another thing, how would this actually be programmed?

Okay yeah, predator is probably the wrong word. From their point of view it's more like they are the Hunter ...Slight difference :P. While their job is to guard objectives, it's also just as nearly important to kill the spies (they go hand in hand :/), set traps, etc.

The only problem with blood splatter I actually see is how it would be implemented. For a Merc to get an indication that he did something to the spy, the blood would have to be visible. SvM is based around Darkness and Shadows. Counter Strike theory doesn't apply with it's simple painting of blood on a wall, because there is that chance you don't see it.

It then begs the question of if the blood splatter would be illuminated, or reflective (so that it catches the eye). Which is counter productive in general if you don't want the stealth of the game to be watered down.

Or if an option like in the below quote...

None of the information about how spies heal themselves is relevant, it comes down to how the mercenary knows whether they're hitting their target. I believe the best way of signalling to a mercenary that he's hitting his target is through blood splatter. Then again, if your making long distance shots this may be a problem. Maybe it would be better rather than for the crosshair to turn red, to turn into a cross like MW2, or even just to hear the bullets land on the spy as well as the blood splatter... there's many options which can be explored :)

The healing was just my example of how their "Predator", but now "Hunter" gameplay made sense. In an encounter... the Spy is at a Disadvantage, unless he knows his way with gadgets and the map. Subtle ques like the Sound Detector and educated guessing based on situations is how the Merc works (When not 100% guarding an objective, even more so in a deathmatch) like what Spies are going to do if they get hit. Insert Options I stated above.

But all in all, yeah, there are a lot of options. Multiple will have to be used, because one isn't superior to all.

...Still want to know if there is going to be a difference between Teammate Healing and Health Station Healing... (Too lazy to search) ;D

Well mercs could place a mine on the health station thats the only real difference.

I'm not really talking about what makes them different strategically, but why is a Box full of Meds, Wraps, antidotes, etc. the same as some dude that can't have more than like... a couple Advils on him.

I forget if Teammate healing could heal Poison, but that'd make sense if it didn't.

Or if a Teammate could only heal a certain amount.
(Like half a life bar. So if you have 25% health, then you'd get 75% with his help)

Not sure what'd go on, just seems like something should happen there. If it isn't already... Memories are kinda fuzzy.

[Spekkio]

Hy guys im new to the forum and what a surprise i have some questions or rather suggestions.

The main problem was with CT that you got no feedback on your hud on whats happening.
Example: A merc points his gun at you but still didn't see you, you got no visual notification on the fact that you could be seen at that point or not (A simple white or black dot at the corner of the spy hud could just solve this or a bar just like in single player CT).
Example 2.: A merc shoots a spy but there is no way to tell that the shots have landed or not. Suggestion: Have blood splatter when a spy is shot (like in counter strike when you hit something) or have sound when someone is hit.

I hope these suggestions can be discussed here to make the game even better then CT multiplayer ever was.

Example 1: There is no way to account for the human factor in this. Some people will look right at you and not see you while others have a better eye.

Example 2: You absolutely do have indication of landing a shot in CT; the reticle changes color.

RE: life counter...everyone did it anyway, so why not just have it part of the game? If you really wanted to count lives accurately, you could have a pen and paper nearby and notch off the spy's lives. You don't need the game to count it for you, it's just doing something that anyone halfway decent at the game was doing anyway.

The only way that you could truly avoid counting spy lives is if you didn't know which spy you killed, but you'd still be able to tell when they had 1 life left between the two of them.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

The only problem with blood splatter I actually see is how it would be implemented. For a Merc to get an indication that he did something to the spy, the blood would have to be visible. SvM is based around Darkness and Shadows.

I see no problem with this.
If a spy is in the shadow, the merc could shoot randomly just to freak out the spies. Now if he hit a spy in the shadow, he'd have a huge advantage of knowing where the spy is, for free. And the spy would have to watch out more, so as not to randomly be hit.

However, without an indication for the merc that he hit, it'd be pretty balanced, and the spies would'nt be at such a disadvantage when passing through open areas.

Seems balanced to me.

[I <3 U]

I think it's still nice to know which member of the other team you killed, although i see the logic.

[Ruro]

Example 1: There is no way to account for the human factor in this. Some people will look right at you and not see you while others have a better eye.

Well if you are in absolute darkness in a corner and they look at you without any gadgets you should be invisible or almost invisible. If you get an indicator that shows you that you are in a dark area or you are not is really helpful in my opinion. But then again i found out that all of this is just useless, because almost every damn user will just turn the gamma to over 9000, and shoot you in the face in a dark corner...I would so love to see a lock on gamma options but then they will just turn up the gamma on their screen...