1 weapon system > 3 weapon system

[InvisibleMan999]

I don't see a problem with people who want to increase their short range power.

You say the uzi doesn't have weaknesses, but that's because it's supposed to be the middle of the road, balanced weapon. So obviously, it seems to do a lot of things, but doesn't really have any specialties.  It's more about what the uzi can't do. It can't get the insta-kill head shots a shotgun can, and it can't snipe.  The very fact that most pros take the rifle should indicate that the uzi isn't inherently unbalanced because it has no weaknesses. If anything, I still think sniping is a bit too powerful. Most pros for whatever reason consider the uzi to be broken and overpowered, yet they use the rifle... hmmm.... I've always considered it more of an elitism thing where they say "I'm so awesome because I can snipe" and hate getting beaten by a weapon that's just plain easier to use, but lacks the rifle versatility.

The shotty is the weak weapon, and I'm not sure how to adequately upgrade that. The fact that you can't even reliably shoot a sticky cam or spybullet just sucks. Personally I'd make the shotty a bit more deadly. Make it just totally destroy aggro, so the shotty is a last resort for people that can't handle aggro. It may be  a newbie gun of sorts, but it'll be kinda nice in that it's something you take to force aggro teams to go stealth. It's still not a great choice, but if you could completely shut down aggro, it may be worth it.

[Gawain]

invisible, this thread isn't about how to balance 3 weapons, it's about how much a 1 weapons system pwns a 3 weapon sys :P

[InvisibleMan999]

invisible, this thread isn't about how to balance 3 weapons, it's about how much a 1 weapons system pwns a 3 weapon sys :P

Well I disagree about that. A one weapon system is equivalent to just playing CT and only being able to choose the rifle.

It seems more like you just want to prevent people from taking the uzi and shotty rather than creating a better weapon system.

Aggro spies benefit, since everyone now has a rifle and is weaker versus aggro. Hell I like the versatility to take the shotty sometimes if I'm dealing with a couple of aggro happy morons who don't know how to use stealth. I don't do it often, but sometimes I will.

Personally I'd rather make an uzi-like weapon the default gun and let people take tazer, extended clip or scope as gadgets to extend the power of their favorite gun. That's actually a 1 weapon system with some choice.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Do you mean a PT rifle with optional /scope/clip/tazer?

[InvisibleMan999]

Do you mean a PT rifle with optional /scope/clip/tazer?

Pretty much. The idea is that you get a base weapon of some kind, that's good for a variety of basic applications and can upgrade it by spending gadget slots for specialty upgrades.

So if you want you could get more ammo or possibly increased RoF, sniping capability, or increased close quarters power (taser or shotty attachment). Of course every gadget you spend on your gun is a gadget that you're not spending on frags, mines, spytraps, gas mask or backpack.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Good idea. I like how you could give away 3/4 slots just to get the ultimate weapon that would suck.

[Gawain]

invisible, the standard weapon has to be strong enough against aggro. try playing ct with rifle as host and with players from your own country, and you'll see that they won't stand a chance with cheap aggro tactics. i'm not afraid of getting pwned by shotty or uzi (i'm quite a stealth player actually). if with no lag and better mouse implementation rifle (+tazer) proves too weak to counter aggro (which i highly doubt), we just have to increase the rof. it worked perfectly fine in pt, and if you have problems countering noobs with the rifle, either you or the server sucks. your idea that with a one-weapon-sys aggro becomes too strong is really retarded, it's quite easy to adapt one weapon to this.

[InvisibleMan999]

invisible, the standard weapon has to be strong enough against aggro. try playing ct with rifle as host and with players from your own country, and you'll see that they won't stand a chance with cheap aggro tactics. i'm not afraid of getting pwned by shotty or uzi (i'm quite a stealth player actually). if with no lag and better mouse implementation rifle (+tazer) proves too weak to counter aggro (which i highly doubt), we just have to increase the rof. it worked perfectly fine in pt, and if you have problems countering noobs with the rifle, either you or the server sucks. your idea that with a one-weapon-sys aggro becomes too strong is really retarded, it's quite easy to adapt one weapon to this.

Well, if you want the rifle to be good versus aggro too, then basically you're creating a supergun. Remember that in PT, the main reason you didn't get creamed by aggro was that everybody took a tazer and the tazer was god. So using even the PT rifle as a comparison isn't particularly great.

I'd rather prefer some kind of innate countersystem to the game. The 3 weapon system is kinda okay right now. shotty beats aggro, uzi is the average weapon and sniper loses to aggro.

Now I actually do agree with you that the base weapon should be reasonably okay at holding back aggro, which is why I suggest something more similar to the uzi as a base weapon, not the rifle. But I think if you want to snipe you should have to pay some cost. Either be notably weaker against aggro (as in a 3 weapon system) or you have to pay a gadget slot for a scope.

Already mercs win the majority of matches in CT using the rifle. I honestly don't think the rifle is nearly as weak as you think it is. If it were so crappy against aggro you'd be using an uzi.

[goodkebab]

i love shotty on some maps and think its lame as shit when you get double teamed by host when using rifle and cannot hit anything at a 2 meter range.

Uzi suffers from a performance hit  (hit animations) which I can understand....but please stop this nonsense about only skilled players use rifle and anything else is for noobs. 


A lot of spies actually prey on the weaknesses of rifle thinking they can get away in time or just aggro out of the situation.  Shotty forces people to change tactics and decent spies do a good job of that....but a lot of others just start calling me a noob for it.

[Kurbutti]

I never had to tell people not to double team when we already ruled out DJ and tazer. Heck, we didn't even have berserk back then.

[.leelu12.]

i love shotty on some maps and think its lame as shit when you get double teamed by host when using rifle and cannot hit anything at a 2 meter range.

Uzi suffers from a performance hit  (hit animations) which I can understand....but please stop this nonsense about only skilled players use rifle and anything else is for noobs. 


A lot of spies actually prey on the weaknesses of rifle thinking they can get away in time or just aggro out of the situation.  Shotty forces people to change tactics and decent spies do a good job of that....but a lot of others just start calling me a noob for it.

cant snipe well really, so uzi for me usually. Have seen GK playing and hes scary with shotty :D

[Farley4Fan]

We really need to continue this conversation in the other thread.

[InvisibleMan999]

A lot of spies actually prey on the weaknesses of rifle thinking they can get away in time or just aggro out of the situation.  Shotty forces people to change tactics and decent spies do a good job of that....but a lot of others just start calling me a noob for it.

Yeah there are seriously some spies out there that do not change tactics. I remember running into one group of actually pretty good aggroers on river mall. Problem was they played an exclusively death match strategy. So we just waited underneath the main choke point with the cameras and blew em away with dual shotty.

And they didn't back off. They just kept trying the same strategy.

[Farley4Fan]

Do you mean a PT rifle with optional /scope/clip/tazer?

Pretty much. The idea is that you get a base weapon of some kind, that's good for a variety of basic applications and can upgrade it by spending gadget slots for specialty upgrades.

So if you want you could get more ammo or possibly increased RoF, sniping capability, or increased close quarters power (taser or shotty attachment). Of course every gadget you spend on your gun is a gadget that you're not spending on frags, mines, spytraps, gas mask or backpack.

I'm growing tired of posting the same thing in 2 threads.  ::)

The problem with the customizable base weapon is that someone could have a shotgun attachment and you would have no clue whatsoever.  Then you go up to them for a nice quick hello and say goodbye to your head.  That last sentence sounds like something agent would say hahaha

[Gawain]

We really need to continue this conversation in the other thread.

ähm this thread was first, has no totally pointless poll and a good opening post. so which thread should die? go figure...