**Wider VentS***

[Gawain]

so there are many bad vents in ct...

[Westfall]

so there are many bad vents in ct...

Why is a vent near an objective a bad thing?

Its more annoying when there is a coop from a vent (Mount Hospital) and your partner doesnt realise you he has to go past if first before pressing t  ::)

uuummm...good 1?

[Farley4Fan]

so there are many bad vents in ct...

Vents by objectives don't totally hurt gameplay.  Maybe a few of them do a bit, but come on.  Actually, imo, the vent by the pirates hack is actually helpful to map design.  It helps a spy get to greek a lot faster than a merc, if they both start out near the hack.  It's the way it should be and it enforces teamwork and good mine placement.  Wouldn't you say?

[AgentX_003]

if ya wanna get into a discussion about what maps were good for vents, id say the original museum in Pandora tomorrow. because you could go from inside cafe into storage and from storage to monolith all in one inter-twining vent.

[Gawain]

a vent next to an objective is like that:
-oh a merc comes while im hacking, totally np, who gives a crap about timing/planning/teamplay, i just go into that vent right next to me
-the merc knows exactly that i'm in that vent but can't do shit about it yeeeah, there's no way for him to get me outta there or track me
-oh i happen to be in a vent with an exit right to an objective, so i can start hacking before the merc even knows wtf happens because i have soooo awesome stealth skillz that i can use a vent!! haha bitch you can go on with your patroulling, but you can't look into that vent. i'm sooo uba...
-gay guessing game situations that especially appear whenever one spy is in a vent like the one between laundry-storage that connects two objectives

[frvge]

I disagree on all points.

[Gawain]

elaborate... oO

[VaNilla]

a vent next to an objective is like that:
-oh a merc comes while im hacking, totally np, who gives a crap about timing/planning/teamplay, i just go into that vent right next to me - If you play like that all the time, I can't imagine how many times you die at objectives... mercs catch on to that very quickly, there are better escape routes.
-the merc knows exactly that i'm in that vent but can't do shit about it yeeeah, there's no way for him to get me outta there or track me - That helps the merc, if your in there and you don't come out your going to waste time. There are only a few exits on each vent area so he knows exactly where you can come out, he can mine the entry you came into it through and check the other exits for you, and if you come out your first entry you could die very easily if your not careful.
-oh i happen to be in a vent with an exit right to an objective, so i can start hacking before the merc even knows wtf happens because i have soooo awesome stealth skillz that i can use a vent!! haha bitch you can go on with your patroulling, but you can't look into that vent. i'm sooo uba... - Same point as first, just even more retarded because you said you can't look into a vent, frag maybe?
-gay guessing game situations that especially appear whenever one spy is in a vent like the one between laundry-storage that connects two objectives You seem to assume there is only one merc, gaurd both ways, frag both ways = Spy dead, guessing is part of the Splinter Cell game and without making well educated guesses you will fail, this helps balance things out, again there are only 2 exits and both of those exits are easily gaurded.

How's that for elaboration?

[Gawain]

quite bad actually. fleeing into spy-only zones is a very common and well working tactic. and what's retarded about saying that you can't look into vents? it's a simple fact. running into mines that are in obvious places without being chased into them is a thing that only happens to idiots or on servers with soundloss. calling a 50-50-guessing game educated is, well, you can do the math...

[Cyntrox]

quite bad actually. fleeing into spy-only zones is a very common and well working tactic. and what's retarded about saying that you can't look into vents? it's a simple fact. running into mines that are in obvious places without being chased into them is a thing that only happens to idiots or on servers with soundloss. calling a 50-50-guessing game educated is, well, you can do the math...

By the same logic, there should only be one objective, and one route to that objective, so that there won't be a guessing game...

[Gawain]

nope, the difference is that the merc can't patroul spy-only zones. there must be a way to find the spy before he comes close to the objective and to chase the spy.

[.leelu12.]

i dont know if there is anything like a 'perfect vent system' that can be achieved  :-\

[Gawain]

well, i'd say there are quite easy guidelines: no vent exits/entrances close to objectives, as few vents as possible, make vents less of a safe place (non-bullet proof vents like on station, half-open ceiling like on orph 2nd floor corridor, nerve gas release like on missile strike). in ct maps i always have the feeling that they put in vents just because they found out "oh this part of the map isn't balanced, let's put a vent in, sounds like an easy solution". of course you can't and shouldn't get rid of vents totally, you really need them for the spawn etc.

[Farley4Fan]

a vent next to an objective is like that:
-oh a merc comes while im hacking, totally np, who gives a crap about timing/planning/teamplay, i just go into that vent right next to me
-the merc knows exactly that i'm in that vent but can't do shit about it yeeeah, there's no way for him to get me outta there or track me
-oh i happen to be in a vent with an exit right to an objective, so i can start hacking before the merc even knows wtf happens because i have soooo awesome stealth skillz that i can use a vent!! haha bitch you can go on with your patroulling, but you can't look into that vent. i'm sooo uba...
-gay guessing game situations that especially appear whenever one spy is in a vent like the one between laundry-storage that connects two objectives

Here's the deal.  Vents next to objectives aren't bad map design.  Vents next to objectives where you can escape a merc and go multiple ways is bad map design.  Just don't make it so the vents go an infinite amount of ways inside the system.  Maybe 1 or 2 exit points that are close to eachother for the vents next to objectives.  This way it's much harder for a spy to escape using these objective vents.  He could even be trapped in that vent system.

Here's another solution.  Making little spots where frags can easily be fired into so that they go into vents.  Imagine if there was some sort of hole in the wall in the vent that goes around the pirates stairs.  Imagine how much easier it would be if there was a punctured hole in the wall where you could easily fire a nade right in the middle of that vent.  I don't know, just little things that map designers can do to make these escape vents a bit more dangerous to be inside.  Maybe a lot of the vent is made of a grate texture that the merc can see through and shoot the spy.

It's all up to the map designer.  A lot of things are these days.

[Westfall]

well, i'd say there are quite easy guidelines: no vent exits/entrances close to objectives, as few vents as possible, make vents less of a safe place (non-bullet proof vents like on station, half-open ceiling like on orph 2nd floor corridor, nerve gas release like on missile strike). in ct maps i always have the feeling that they put in vents just because they found out "oh this part of the map isn't balanced, let's put a vent in, sounds like an easy solution". of course you can't and shouldn't get rid of vents totally, you really need them for the spawn etc.

I don't know why you would say "as few vents as possible". Don't know about you, but I like to remain out of the merc's sight. Thats just me though. A vent near an objective doesn't really cause problems, especially because there are counters to every possible situation with a spy being in a vent. Why would you leave a spy in a vent near the objective? This is where time/nades/mines/sniper comes into play. Pretty much a guarantee that the spy better go another direction where the other merc might be? What is the spy's partner doing? Probably losing more lives while the person stays stranded in the vents. There are balances to everything involving vents. Limiting the amount of vents someone puts in PS would probably fuck up the game. For real though.

@ Papa: About the hole in the wall to shoot a vent through....really? Does it need to be easier to kill the spy? Vents shouldn't really be dangerous to be inside. Its a vent....an area of duct work that is quite secluded. "Imagine how much easier it would be if there was a punctured hole in a vent to kill a spy." IMAGINE HOW MUCH EASIER. Making it easier isn't the point.