EAX (2)

[.leelu12.]

Hi,
Well, iv tried some stuff to figure out EAX in CT and noticed some things in club and museum (as these the most played)...also Steel is bugged or something, because with soundcard EAX you can hear every spy move in the whole map, even if merc is on the other side to spy lol <.< (just as a small edit, EAX is not just realistic 3D sound, EAX is extended sound, as in you can hear more and far wider...i have no problem with sound being realistic in the sense you can tell exactly what direction it comes from. However, i do have a problem with people having greater sound detail and wider sound coverage. Like damina3k hud, it is as far as im concerned a form of cheating. Damn i wish punkbuster blocked EAX :D then i could host and stop all with EAX :D)
In Club:
If you turn on EAX and stand in corridor1, you can hear the spy in lunch, tea, jac, steam,g2,g1 if they do anything more than slow crouch in a straight line (yes you can hear if they move diagonally in slow crouch)
In Museum:
In cafe any movement, which is not slow crouch in a straight line can be heard if your in cafe inside, although it is obscured to anything but rolling near the windows.
In mono and exe, any diagonal walking in vents in slow crouch is easily heard.

Now some ppl wont like this, but this does spoil the game. With EAX on, its impossible to sneak up on a merc unless you walk in a straight line in slow crouch, or you wait for them to pass you.

Further bugs:
Krauser: walking on the stairs above the elevator can be heard anywhere in the map, including lab and irradiation.
Cinema: the worst of them all...if you stand on the stairs in lobby, you can hear a spy in video/cafeteria. You can hear in any vent, even though they are not metal, if the spy does anything other than move forwards.


Other issues:
AA has completely spoiled museum...if your running it, please stop, as you CAN see a green outline on spys without visions/gun out on the ceilings (this is how SwordRus plays :S, and its kinda like cheating).

Back to EAX:
The best map for it not working :D lol. The hardest map for a sound card EAX user to hear a spy is vertigo lol :D cos its so huge :D.

I think a far better project would be to patch CT to remove some of the bugs, or create a total conversion of it to remove EAX and stop the green outline.

EAX stops CT being a stealth game and makes it dependent upon (1) ping and (2) who hosts.

It has got to the stage now, where i only play with friends, who i know dont use EAX, because of how pointless it is playing stealth (and IT IS A STEALTH GAME untill AC2 comes out lol).

Myself and a few others are creating a video of 'skillz' lol which you should watch out for too (or not :D), just to illustrate that EAX is not a skill, it is simply as somebody told me hardward> skill. When this video comes out, all the EAX morons can see how much they dont know (for example, ask anybody in aka the places in River Mall a spy does not appear on the hologram and i bet you, they dont know :D).
Until then peace, although if DA has EAX, i certainly shant be playing it and will encourage others not to.

Just to finish and to rebel against common opinion :D Led + Kronf the players many idolise both use EAX -.- go figure :D

Peasz!

Oh i forgot! There is a reason why ubi limited fps to 30 in sc lol, so anyone who has unlocked FPS, has in effect cheated as well. Yes, i know it makes it smoother and gives you an advantage, but running inf equip or wallhack (and yer this exists lmao...could be useful to combat EAX users -.-?) also gives you an advantage. UBI didnt include either higher FPS or wallhack in SC because they both make play unfair. Iv also got a feeling UBI didnt thoroughly test EAX, or implemented it incorrectly, because it seems to overwrite the soundzones in the game. I am creating a video to illustrate what you can hear in a sound zone in for example orphanage, and how you can hear to other sound zones with EAX.

So as i said before: stop PS and make the changes to CT!

[frvge]

You're not making any sense.
CT can not be modded, or at least not as much as you would like. So that's fail #1.
EAX is meant for making effects, for example, EAX 4 has:

# Flange
# Echo
# Distortion
# Ring modulation effects

The 3D sound is done via another layer. Ubi screwed up its implementation, so something went wrong between DirectSound and EAX.  Fail #2.

Green outlines are probably driver issues. I know the Xbox 360 has it.

Also, we can't legally, nor technically, patch SCCT. You know... lawsuits, reverse engineering etc etc. Fail #3.

Limiting FPS means that everyone has the same sucky experience. My graphics card runs UT3 at > 60 fps. Why limit it to 30 then. Oh, that 60 fps is at 2036x1536 res, while full-screen recording with FRAPS.

Next time, please think before you post ;)

[.leelu12.]

Ok if CT cannot be modded, then just dont include EAX in PS, get rid of the green outline upon AA (AA should not even have been applied by anyone to Versus...that green outline IS CHEATING lol), limit FPS to say 50 (as i mentioned earlier, because there is no limit on FPS in SCCT, it is like cheating, because it is giving you an unfair advantage if your FPS do not match up with the hosts FPS, and this is almost impossible without some kind of limit).
I have a feeling you might be wrong about EAX, not because i know more, just because i have tested with 2 computers the effects of soundcard sound and soundcard sound with EAX enabled. My findings are completely accurate and im sure most players will tell you this.
I dont have a clue how EAX works, but have a feeling that when UBI introduced it into CT, it was either a new version or they introduced it as an after thought i.e. not properly tested (and anyway, UBI will not have tested SCCT how players nowadays play CT)...maybe they just included EAX as part of teh singleplayer properly, but did not thoroughly test it in versus?
Whether i am right or wrong about how EAX works or UBI's use of it in CT, the coherence of my first argument remains, that EAX spoils the whole purpose of CT being a stealth game and SHOULD NOT be part of PS if it results in such invasion upon stealth gameplay as has now occurred in CT.
P>S no comments on 'well you should learn to play stealthier', because as my first post suggests, even slow creeping diagonally is heard if soundcardEAX is enabled. I also doubt whether ubi when testing versus though that players would have to keep jumping and pressing crouch to advance at any speed unheard across the map...EAX was a nice idea by ubi, but through lack of testing has spoilt the whole purpose of SCCT
[NOTE]: i also have a feeling that EAX is improperly implemented in the Map Pack maps, as it seems any sound across the whole of these maps can be heard (although i am continuing to test this). EAX seems to be far more devastating to stealth gameplay in these maps than to the original maps

EAX = hardware > skills

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Oh, that 60 fps is at 2036x1536 res, while full-screen recording with FRAPS.

Sweet. I want one too ::)

Uhm. leelu please think again.
PS isn't even built on the same engine as CT. PS has NOTHING to do with CT.
So, how can you even think that AA will cause bugs/ glitches if UT3 already has similar effects?
EAX is nothing to discuss since afaik Unreal now uses OpenAL (i can be wrong on that one).

CT =/= PS
because
PS > CT

[.leelu12.]

good, but iv posted again to make myself clearer

[frvge]

Again, EAX makes sound effects... not 3D positioning. Ubi just fucked the zones/zone-detection or something. Could be a mistake in the UT2.5 engine of SCCT.
EAX is being deprecated in favor of OpenAL (which I programmed in... well, a bit) and its extensions.

None of your points apply to PS, so I don't see a reason to continue this.

[LennardF1989]

It's widely known sound in CT is messed up (just like almost the whole game is messed up...).

And it's already said before but I'll say it again:
EAX is NOT 3D sound, it's a filter which makes sound sound more.... ehm... sounding! Besides, UT3 uses OpenAL not EAX...

Please do the technical research before you go say stupid things, because it indeed makes you sound stupid (also because the whole EAX thing has already been said to you in the previous topic).

All of your other points are already tackled down, sorry, you fail.

[AgentX_003]

It's widely known sound in CT is messed up (just like almost the whole game is messed up...).

And it's already said before but I'll say it again:
EAX is NOT 3D sound, it's a filter which makes sound sound more.... ehm... sounding! Besides, UT3 uses OpenAL not EAX...

Please do the technical research before you go say stupid things, because it indeed makes you sound stupid (also because the whole EAX thing has already been said to you in the previous topic).

All of your other points are already tackled down, sorry, you fail.

this is the only one time im gunna say this , but. ... GO LENNARD !! :DD:D:D:D:D:D

@leeLu12 : freeman is right, your not a woman , clearly  ,No woman has that much time to spend on a game. :/.

[I <3 U]

Just to clear things up:

A) I dont use AA

And my second point (EDIT: Didnt see lennards post):

It's widely known sound in CT is messed up (just like almost the whole game is messed up...).

And it's already said before but I'll say it again:
EAX is NOT 3D sound, it's a filter which makes sound sound more.... ehm... sounding! Besides, UT3 uses OpenAL not EAX...

Please do the technical research before you go say stupid things, because it indeed makes you sound stupid (also because the whole EAX thing has already been said to you in the previous topic).

All of your other points are already tackled down, sorry, you fail.

B) Go lennard.

[.leelu12.]

but i have a video Freeman of you saying "lmao there is a green outline around you when you are in camo" -.- was orph i think in bit to laundry -.- about a year ago, when AA was made available on SCLamers

Point remains though sound zones gotta be sorted in PS and there should be no "lets press that EAX cheat button in options", sound should be the same for everyone.

Any comments on FPS limited to something higher, like 50fps? To make the game fairer though frvge2, it doesnt matter that you have a super computer, most dont, so you need to arrange PS, so that everyone can get to a smoother rate of fps, say 40 or 50 or something and then you dont have people with 100fps hosting and having a huge advantage over someone with 30fps in their server. Also, whilst the fps is unlimited, there is nothing to say people will host and reduce the resolution e.g. 640x480 and have say 800fps and have a massive advantage over other players...Personally i think PS should be designed to play at 50fps at 1600x1200.1050 resolution.

Additionally:
i was thinking about banning people in PS. Would it be possible that when you ban a player 4 times he would have his machine address banned from your server say for a week automatically?
e.g. a moron joins your server, you kick and then he rejoins like 3 more times and you kick him. After this could his MAC address be banned for say a week automatically? Clearly you cant have players having access to MAC bans directly, or noone would be able to join anything. However, if it is a 3rd party which automatically bans for just a week or something...could help sort out morons (like agentx and his sit your server for 30min without moving).

As an off-PS-topic matter:
I was wondering, does anybody think that proliferating the wallhack in SCCT will balance out the EAX players?
I think wallhack balances EAX:
> EAX means you can hear right across the map and get a very good idea of where the spy is.
> Wallhack has less range, but you know exactly where the spy is (it only goes through 1 wall)
> EAX means it is nearly impossible to sneak up on a merc over any distance
> Wallhack still allows you to sneak up on a merc from behind at a speed

In a map like Steel, i think wallhack balances out EAX whores. I shall try running wallhack for a bit against some teams and see how it works out and if it is ok in CT i will make it available to more players if they want it. There is also a merc hud for spys lol in SCCT now, but this creates too much unbalance vs EAX, so i shall not be providing this to anyone
Some Comments pls

@Leonnard: True i dont know much about how EAX works, which is why i tested it in game... however it works, the effects in SCCT are as i have detailed above. As such in PS anything (i.e. OPENGL) which creates the cheating effect EAX has in SCCT, or anything which destroys the stealth elements of PS through sound or anything else, should be swiftly removed

Oh also, EAX is not supported in VISTA and an EAX to OpenGL converter is not available for all soundcards (and the ones that are distort the sound anyway)...at least with OpenGl being used in PS, this should not be a problem.

Thanks

[frvge]

There's no official stance on banning-systems yet. Will be decided upon in like 6 months. I doubt we'll be going with MAC-addresses for the reason that I don't know how hard it is to extract the MAC-address from the NIC, and that it's spoofable.

I don't know about the wallhack. I've seen it in action on a test-server, but not in a real game.

Stop the EAX-bs, you're still not making any sense.

100 fps or 50 fps doesn't really matter that much. It's both more than playable.

[LennardF1989]

Again, you failed.

@Leonnard: True i dont know much about how EAX works, which is why i tested it in game... however it works, the effects in SCCT are as i have detailed above. As such in PS anything (i.e. OPENGL) which creates the cheating effect EAX has in SCCT, or anything which destroys the stealth elements of PS through sound or anything else, should be swiftly removed

Oh also, EAX is not supported in VISTA and an EAX to OpenGL converter is not available for all soundcards (and the ones that are distort the sound anyway)...at least with OpenGl being used in PS, this should not be a problem.

Thanks

Should be:

@Lennard: True i dont know much about how EAX works, which is why i tested it in game... however it works, the effects in SCCT are as i have detailed above (see **). As such in PS anything (i.e. OpenAL) which creates the cheating effect EAX has in SCCT (WRONG: OpenAL is in NO WAY related to EAX, nor did Epic messed up their sound system), or anything which destroys the stealth elements of PS through sound or anything else, should be swiftly removed (Bypassing FTW).

Oh also, EAX is not supported in VISTA (Depends on your Vista and Bit version... Worked fine on my Ultimate 32bit) and an EAX to OpenAL converter is not available for all soundcards (and the ones that are distort the sound anyway) (You CAN'T convert EAX to OpenAL, they're API's - Wikipedia that, nor is it anything on hardware level, it's software level)...at least with OpenAL being used in PS, this should not be a problem (Finally you realize).

Thanks

Or even better would be:

I should stop my very badly argumentated EAX-rant right now.

Thanks

** Besides, you act as if EAX messed up all sound in SCCT, which isn't true. They just messed up the sound radius for metal surfaces... There's nothing wrong with (most of) the other surfaces...

And another thing, OpenGL (just like DirectX) is a renderer API, OpenAL (just like EAX) is a sound API.

Oh, and some tips:
- Learn to read
- Google and Wikipedia are your friend

PS. Don't get me wrong, but you have a COMPLETELY WRONG idea on how things work, which make you sound VERY VERY VERY stupid. Please stop it.

Thanks*




* Yes, that was meant to mock you ;D

[I <3 U]

but i have a video Freeman of you saying "lmao there is a green outline around you when you are in camo" -.- was orph i think in bit to laundry -.- about a year ago, when AA was made available on SCLamers

A) Just because i tried AA doesn't mean i use it. Once i saw the green outline i took it off.

B) Why are you constantly trying to cause trouble and put others down on the forum?

C) Check the minimum specs for UT3 and go buy a computer based on that. Likelyhood is they will be similar minimum specs to PS. Now stop whining because you have a crap PC. That is essentially what this whole thread is about. If you had a better soundcard you wouldn't complain about eax. If you had a better graphics card you wouldn't complain about FPS and resolution...If you had a life, you wouldn't analyse what makes more noise, walking in a straight line, or diagonally, on a game that died 2 years ago.

D) Go and buy a better computer.

E) With a playerbase this small (judging by CT) IP bans are retarded, soon enough everybody will get banned from all the servers. Not everybody wants to play seriously all the time.

F) (Question for dev) Will PS will support widescreen reso's?

G) (May be a retarded question) I saw furge said EAX is being phased out and OpenAL is becoming more dominant. Why is this? Would there be any differences in-game, when using one over the other?

H) Do you guys have access / can manipulate the UT3 netcode? If not, is the netcode already relatively good on UT3?

[frvge]

F) we're trying. Until we're further, I don't know the details.
G) From wiki

According to Creative's OpenAL 1.1 specification, EAX should be considered deprecated. New development should use OpenAL's EFX interface, which is more tightly coupled with the overall OpenAL framework.

H) No, not the really internal stuff. Should be good, because it runs with 32 (or even 64?) players and PS only has 4.

[I <3 U]

F) we're trying. Until we're further, I don't know the details.
G) From wiki

According to Creative's OpenAL 1.1 specification, EAX should be considered deprecated. New development should use OpenAL's EFX interface, which is more tightly coupled with the overall OpenAL framework.

H) No, not the really internal stuff. Should be good, because it runs with 32 (or even 64?) players and PS only has 4.

Ok thanks man, and thanks for the fast reply.  ;D