Hi, I know your making a clone but does that mean a clone of the levels aswell? I mean I hate the DA ones, theres no depth to them at all. But if I were the designer in CT who made orphanage I would have added things like wind echoing down corridors, window shutters which bang shut in the wind and thunder etc. In the basement I would've added lights which are flickering and lots of other scary stuff the only thing which made me scared as a merc in that level were the manakins.
Are you going to redo maps or just clone them straight off?
Quote from: Tidenburg on February 19, 2007, 08:39:24 PM
Hi, I know your making a clone but does that mean a clone of the levels aswell? I mean I hate the DA ones, theres no depth to them at all. But if I were the designer in CT who made orphanage I would have added things like wind echoing down corridors, window shutters which bang shut in the wind and thunder etc. In the basement I would've added lights which are flickering and lots of other scary stuff the only thing which made me scared as a merc in that level were the manakins.
Are you going to redo maps or just clone them straight off?
Other then clubhouse which we will be using as a 'beta' map, all maps will be new.
Oh and Orphanage had wind blowing throught he corridors, and lightning/thunder. Pay attention much?
The thunder was only the sounds and bit of sky lighting. I mean like blue light through the windows etc and a really loud crap yourself noise. Asfor the wind it didnt blow stuff around much, but I think DA was when they first introduced the 'curtain physics' sort of effect.
Quote from: Tidenburg on February 20, 2007, 12:13:29 AM
The thunder was only the sounds and bit of sky lighting. I mean like blue light through the windows etc and a really loud crap yourself noise. Asfor the wind it didnt blow stuff around much, but I think DA was when they first introduced the 'curtain physics' sort of effect.
The "Currtan" effects you refer to are called SoftBody actors. They are actually present in the CT online mode, and even all the way back to SC 1.
They do make great environmental effects, like having them blow in the wind. In fact, i actually have some banners hanging from a second story balcony, that sway int he wind and are reacable to players and other moving objects.
Its the little things I guess :D
I never saw the curtain things in MP until bosshouse in DA. Anyway back on topic, because your making a CT clone then I assume the maps will be "in depth" with loads of hidden shortcuts like in CT that are completly gone in DA.
QuotePay attention much?
No, on aquarius I only just found that ledge above the fish tank which you can drain and fill a few months before DA came out :P
Quote from: Tidenburg on February 19, 2007, 08:39:24 PM
Hi, I know your making a clone but does that mean a clone of the levels aswell? I mean I hate the DA ones, theres no depth to them at all.
Well I don't know about that. The DA levels had a lot of complexity, there were tons of routes you could take. The main problem with the DA levels is that there were just too many spy routes. If you compare them to for instance a level like clubhouse or even aquarius, where the majority of the time the spy is at least shootable by the merc, in DA you spend almost all your time out of sight... and I don't mean because you're hiding behind cover or in darkness, you're out of sight because there's no way the merc can possibly see you except with a drone. He can't even access the area.
Most of your movement to and from objectives is by way of spy routes and the mercs basically have only a select few points where you become visible for them to try to hit you. As far as tracking you, it was all presence detector.
Just don't follow that design paradigm and we should be ok.
some maps i really like in CT i personally think that the first time u ever play da its cool with the maps but then you start missing the cool CT maps. I think that you should keep some maps like PT and CT there are some PT maps but all remade and new. Keep The most played maps like clubhouse definetly. Just an idea
it isn't so much the maps that make DA a disaster it is the game play. i actually think the maps in DA are pretty good, they probably would have made good versus maps for even the CT style of play
I think new, fresh maps are in order.
Then over time, if there's enough interested people, remake some of the better PT/CT maps.
Also, Red Diamond on DA was pretty cool... about the only map i actually enjoyed.
Quote from: element54 on March 01, 2007, 08:47:26 AM
it isn't so much the maps that make DA a disaster it is the game play. i actually think the maps in DA are pretty good, they probably would have made good versus maps for even the CT style of play
Nah, not really. There's just too many spy routes in most of them. Probably if you plugged up a lot of the vents and made spys actually sneak past the mercs they might be good, but as they are now, they pretty much suck.
Quote from: Raz0rx on March 01, 2007, 09:15:33 AM
Also, Red Diamond on DA was pretty cool... about the only map i actually enjoyed.
Terminus is pretty cool, too. Seems like one of the few maps where spies need to put some thought to their rushes, since it's infiltration points are scarce.
No offense to the custom mappers, but I think a better approach is to start with porting the existing maps with some tweaks to Ubi's retardation (ahem Station floor when you get the bomb and 8 second door hacks, and Missile sector 2), and adding custom ones later. The amount of quality custom maps are scarce compared to the amount that have been turned out. I really only enjoy playing on Zioplex and Oilrig myself. I think it's because that the people who are good at the game, and the people who are custom mapping are usually not the same people. Zed and Innocent are the exceptions, and Innocent got a lot of input from the entire -US clan to balance his map.
Hey...why not start with Zioplex for the beta? It could use a bit of improvement (10 min timer, for example), but it's a relatively balanced map as-is. Plus it'll get the map some much-needed exposure. I think I've only got a couple dozen games on the map, but they have all been very fun.
The question is, does it violate copyright if you port their maps to a different game, even if they're changed slightly? Most stock CT maps don't need any changes, though.
I think importing their maps would be a violation. Zioplex wouldn't be though because someone else made it. Same with Oilrig.
Quote from: Daybreak on March 08, 2007, 03:40:53 PM
I think importing their maps would be a violation. Zioplex wouldn't be though because someone else made it. Same with Oilrig.
We will run into tons of legal issues if we port the orginal maps and even if we port Zioplex. All of the maps have ubi assets, but I don't think a 'layout' is copyrighted. So for PS's Clubhouse, we are technically making our own 'custom' map with all new custom assets with a layout that is based/inspired by CT's clubhouse. You can't sue someone for taking inspiration from you.
As far as Zioplex being a PS map, that has been decided a while ago. However, other then a few textures and some crappy meshes i made inside the editor (and the snowman) its all Ubi assets. So If i were to 'port' it, I would have to make a lot of stuff from scratch. While I'm already started doing so, it will be a long process. This is the same with Oilrig. It has custom assets, but it also has a lot of Ubi assets. So before we can port it, they will have to be removed and replaced,
As for Clubhouse, its going to be a Beta only map that will have no real 'polish' and be made completey out of simple textures and squares. Its meant to test game mechanics in a map we already know is balanced. It will have the same layout as Clubhouse CT becuase thats a map everyone knows and everyone agrees that its prety balanced. When PS is released, I'm hoping the first version will have at least 2 maps, one of which will be Zioplex, the other, an original map. And if the creator of Oilrig agrees and replaces the ubi assets in the map, we can have 3 maps at release.
UBI would have a hard time sueing you anyway, its a non-profit organisation so your technically not stealing.
Quote from: Tidenburg on March 08, 2007, 08:29:04 PM
UBI would have a hard time sueing you anyway, its a non-profit organisation so your technically not stealing.
Stealing is stealing. Being 'non-profit' doesnt' mean shit. And who says we will be non-profit. If PS explodes, the creators will exploit the shit out of it for every penny its worth. Even if its not selling the game, I'm sure people would buy apparel.
They could easily give us a ceas and desist order and even need be, sue us for copyright infringment/stealing of assets/being more awesome then they are. Thats why, even if Clubhouse is made from custom assets, I'd rather not have it in a released version. Better safe, then sorry.
Shit, then I'll have to learn Zioplex :p
I think if we can get a playable level that is a lot of fun....someone out there will port his favorite CT maps anyways.
Project Stealth is semi organized...making it vulnerable to legal action. But if a maverick modder goes to town, I certainly wont stop him, and if he does a good job...the maps will quickly find their way into the community without our help.
If the porting of CT maps is treated as a seperate and independant project, i really dont see how UBI can harm us. UBI cannot stop pirating of their games for that matter...
Quote from: goodkebab on March 27, 2007, 01:42:41 PM
I think if we can get a playable level that is a lot of fun....someone out there will port his favorite CT maps anyways.
Yeah, just have someone independent do the porting that isn't related with Project Stealth, that way you're in the clear.
I made up this map for a library or some kind of government capital type building. I've only scetched some of the outside. I'm going to design the outside in blender(maybe post some of it). I really like it. I'm gona try to make it Mount Hospitalish/Oraphange without the sectors. I think you guys will like it.