Post Ideas for appearance of vision modes.

[MR.Mic]

I don't like Mr.Mic's idea. It's a little uncreative and old for me. It's pretty much the equivalent of cloaking when stationary which has been done to death (but still very fun in Natural Selection  ;D).

If it works, use it.

I don't like the whole idea of stationary + nothing = invisible(ish). It has no thought for the spy other than to stop...and I've played that game before (lol @ second and third paragraphs).

Well wtf do you want man? Motion tracking detects MOTION. Clearly, staying still is a perfect way to avoid this.

And if the spy stops, it sucks that you're only using one vision mode.


Darkness counters normal vision.
Stopping counters motion tracking.
Not using equpiment counters EMF.

For everything at once, there's the laser/flashlight.

It's like paper-rock-scissors. You can't have it all in one vision.

Anyway, my idea...

And if the need be, to solve the nightvision problem, we could incorperate the distance of stuff from the merc into the shader. Blend stuff of like distances and contrast stuff of unlike distances. So a spy next to a wall will be blended together while a spy out in the corridor will contrast with the wall that's far away.

You mean a zdepth shader...



It's an ok idea, until you start bumping into shit and greeble on the ground because you cant tell the difference between those and the floor when the zdepth is taken into lower relative dynamic ranges by spanning a room.

I stand by this statement...
NO VISION MODE SHOULD INHIBIT YOUR ABILITY TO NAVIGATE A MAP, EVER.

things I want to put out there is the change in MT where we use the distance of the surfaces from the player in the calcuations. So that surfaces that are close together appear blended (regardless of lighting) and surfaces that are far part are contrasted.

...Is it odd that I remember saying these things or that I still agree with them?

Yes

[monterto]

that video scared the shit out of me

[kronf]

I like the idea, but I think the spy should be made more distinguishable when moving. Also how would a spy look through smoke? Other than that, it looks great.

[MR.Mic]

I like the idea, but I think the spy should be made more distinguishable when moving. Also how would a spy look through smoke? Other than that, it looks great.

I'm actually working on a vid that addresses this issue.

[frvge]

Mics idea seems ok to me.

[Overstatement]

You mean a zdepth shader...

...when the zdepth is taken into lower relative dynamic ranges by spanning a room.

Yeah, if that's how you want to think of it, it uses the zbuffer but that's only part of it. And I don't think a complex engine like Unreal3 would be limited by such things as low zbuffer precision.

I stand by this statement...
NO VISION MODE SHOULD INHIBIT YOUR ABILITY TO NAVIGATE A MAP, EVER.

I don't think my MT would make you bump into walls.

I think your MT is a little too weak. As Spekkio said:

I can see spies moving in front of my face just fine, thankyouverymuch.

(along with not seeing a stationary spy under any conditions)

[InvisibleMan999]

I like the idea, but I think the spy should be made more distinguishable when moving. Also how would a spy look through smoke? Other than that, it looks great.

It's pretty easy to make the spy more distinguishable, you just make him a more contrasting color.

I'd think it'd be cool if the spy actually changed colors depending on how fast he was going, just to make him more apparent.

I think your MT is a little too weak.

Yeah, it is a pretty serious nerf with no 360 detection at all. I wonder how it would fare against aggro?

[MR.Mic]

You mean a zdepth shader...

...when the zdepth is taken into lower relative dynamic ranges by spanning a room.

Yeah, if that's how you want to think of it, it uses the zbuffer but that's only part of it. And I don't think a complex engine like Unreal3 would be limited by such things as low zbuffer precision.

I'm not talking about low-precision z-buffer.

Anyway, I did a mock up of what I imagine your version of MT would look like.



The spies are circled for ease of viewing.

[Bionic-Blob]

i think he means use the zbuffer as a sort of image multiplier on top of the standard MT so stuff gets darker when it's further away. doesn't mt have that anyway? whats the difference between this and fog?

[MR.Mic]

After some talking with spekkio this morning, I made a second concept.

Download: http://rapidshare.com/files/54094748/conceptnewfinal.avi.html
Web-Player: http://stage6.divx.com/user/MRMIC/video/1612884/PC-MT-Concept-2B

A new mock up animation I made with max and some materials.

It's still basically EMF, but sensitive to motion.
It still has fog, and the surfaces are colored based on your viewing angle.

It is easier to see a spy when it's moving and a grey box and a sound comes up for running spies.
The detection is 360, and the fog represents the detection radius (grey box or otherwise) of MT.
It will detect exactly the same speeds as CT's mt. I just wanted to show the two different effects.


You become visible when you start moving.
The faster you move, the more visible up you are (and vice versa).
When perfectly still, you are completely transparent.
Camo will also have no effect on MT, if you move, you are seen (and vice versa).


As for smoke (smoke will appear to be black noise, just like the crouching spy) , the grey spy model will draw over any existing particles or geometry until it disappears, just like the old MT.


EDIT: Here's another version I made for the ungreyboxed spy with particle effects, like visualizing the air being pushed around:
http://stage6.divx.com/user/MRMIC/video/1612195/PS-MT-Concept-2

[Daybreak]

I don't like Mr.Mic's idea. It's a little uncreative and old for me. It's pretty much the equivalent of cloaking when stationary which has been done to death (but still very fun in Natural Selection  ;D).

I don't like the whole idea of stationary + nothing = invisible(ish). It has no thought for the spy other than to stop...and I've played that game before (lol @ second and third paragraphs).

No thought? maybe, but is it thrilling for the spy, you better believe it. Maybe you haven't had the experience of being in the same room as a merc and having him run into you multiple times. It takes balls not to freak out and run. It's stupid sure, but those are times I'm sure I'm about to have a heart attack. It's great.

I'd love to be able to cloak be completely invisible. It's what I've always wanted to cloak to be. I'd hide in the middle of rooms all the time. I'd shit my pants almost every game... but atleast I'd be having fun.

[Gawain]

i like mr.mics mt, but with one change: it should also detect crouching spies.
the small radius and total invisibility are strong enough.
what about camo? i think though this way camo gets unuseful countering mt (unless it has any influence), camo will get boosted as normal vision is the only one to see long range.

[MR.Mic]

i like mr.mics mt, but with one change: it should also detect crouching spies.

It will detect exactly the same as CT's mt. I just wanted to show the two different effects.

what about camo?

Camo will have no effect on MT, if you move, you are seen (and vice versa).

i think though this way camo gets unuseful countering mt (unless it has any influence), camo will get boosted as normal vision is the only one to see long range.

I think this is good, because Camo is almost a completely useless equipment as of now.

[goodkebab]

will still need to add visual detail like normal maps and shadows,  a noise filter along with the hexagon texture.

[MR.Mic]

will still need to add visual detail like normal maps and shadows, 

Why is this?

The point of my new MT is to ignore lighting completely (no lighting or shadows).
That avoids the NV and the navigation difficulty problem altogether.

a noise filter along with the hexagon texture.

The noise and the hexagon patterns are both just simple overlay textures.
The only filter needed is a blur pass.

CleanRender -> BlurPass -> HexOverlay -> NoiseOverlay