1 weapon system > 3 weapon system

[InvisibleMan999]

The problem with the customizable base weapon is that someone could have a shotgun attachment and you would have no clue whatsoever. 

The same is true of the tazer though right now.

[Farley4Fan]

We really need to continue this conversation in the other thread.

ähm this thread was first, has no totally pointless poll and a good opening post. so which thread should die? go figure...

Polls give you something to go off of while you discuss it, and that is the opinion of the entire community and not just each individual post.  The other one has a better topic (a dicussion thread, not a hate thread.  Maybe I'm mistaken but the title is misleading).  Who cares if it was first?  What is this 1st Grade?  "OOO ooo OOOO pick me pick me my hand was up first!"

Either way, this is pointless to discuss twice at the same time with the same ideas and the same opinions.  I think that CT's weapon system was much better than PT's.  It just needs to be implemented a bit differently.  Simplifying things like weapons/gadgets was another reason DA was terrible.

[Gawain]

there's quite a difference between taking away all gadgets and simplifying a small, but very basic part.

kindergarten?? it's kindergarten level to open up a new thread with the exact same topic...

[frvge]

Please stop flaming or flame-baiting everyone. It's getting on my nerves.

[I <3 U]

So I think it's better to have 3 guns that have their ups and downs, than have 1 weapon that can do everything half-assed.

Amen. 3 Weapons > 1. And i do vary my play style depending on what gun they have, even if i fail at doing so. example: 2 mercs got shotty on Mus, you're focus as spy will be on bombs cos there hard to shoot with shotty.

[I <3 U]

Uzi does have a recoil btw, its just people get used to the recoil they forget it has one:p. But the recoil should be bigger i agree, it should be fucking hard to spray a spy a long distance away. I think making the Uzi slightly more powerful with a lower ROF would do it some good too. Shotgun should be like the shotguns in CSS, they fucking own.

[.leelu12.]

kindergarten?? it's kindergarten level to open up a new thread with the exact same topic...

i was only hoping to achieve a more decisive outcome from this thread, which has just become a confused set of posts (and perhaps should be locked/deleted or something?)  ::)

[T2C LeBron]

i wish we would consolidate the two threads of 3 guns v 1 somehow.... its kind of annoying..

[LennardF1989]

you have your gadget slots to adapt your eq loadout to your preferences.

No. You take grenades, mines and gasmask. For the fourth, you have the choice between backpack/camnet or spytraps. I think it'd be better if you could change your gun according to how you like to play, too.

finally we're down to the real problem: too few real gadget choices for the merc.
this problem is based on bad gadget balance, not on too few main gun choices:
-the redundancy of flares (that get hopefully replaced by ph nades or get a huge boost)
-too short tazer range (that will get longer anyways)
-(too small amount of simultaniously placable spytraps to a certain amount)
-the necessity of a gas mask due to the pure possibility of getting spammed with cams/smoke (eg smoke/cams are too strong against a merc without mask)

you're right that in ct, the merc has too few different gadget choices available (especially compared to the spy side), but that will change with better gadget balance.

- Why replaced if they both can be in?
- Ehm... yea?
- It might be too small, but I wouldnt like it a merc just kills himself to get another load of spytraps and place them among the other ones he placed, there should be a limit (like 4 or 5 as max).
- We'll probably make it so you have a chance to get out of the smoke, unless you're tazered, then you will choke and fall asleep. Though, I agree the cam is too overpowered, you basicly have to run around with gasmask activated to prevent you fall asleep cause of it.

And I would like other weapons just for the sake of variety (no other excuse). Sometimes it's fun to pump spies full of buckshot, other times it's fun to frag them, it depends on mood and how you want to play at times I suppose.

[I <3 U]

Though, I agree the cam is too overpowered, you basicly have to run around with gasmask activated to prevent you fall asleep cause of it.

No way is cam to overpowered, everyone has just gotten really good at using it. Even quick cams are counter-able, if you can mask fast enough. I never run around a map with my GM on, even against the very best players. People just gotta get used to using the numbers instead of the scroll, u can mask like thrice as fast like that.

[Gawain]

@lennard: too much variety hurts the game and makes balancing it way too complicated. what you guys don't get is that the gadget slots are supposed to bring variety to the eq loadout, not the basic gun. imo you think too much in other fps terms where different guns are the only real variety you can get, but in ct you have 70 (!) different gadget loadouts just with 4 out of 8 possible gadgets (which you don't see in ct because of bad gadget balance that will be fixed in ps). besides, i always thought that this mod was about coming as close as possible to a certain svm game's gameplay, and implementing a 1-weapon system comes way closer to that than a 3-weapon system, because 90% of the good players use sniper and almost none shotty atm.

quickcams are np when playing as host and with headphones, but in all other cases they are insanely op.
of course there should be a limit on simultaniously placable spy traps, but you alway gotta relate the usefullness of spytraps to mines: what is stronger, 3 mines (that are deadly) or 3 spytraps (that only give away the spies position)? it doesn't take a genious to see that spytraps could need a boost...

but this gadget related fixes are kinda off-topic here, so let's stop here with it XD

my suggestion to the devs is the following: in the beta, implement only the pt rifle and get all the other gadgets balanced first. if this turns out to provide too few variety in the long-term, feel free to add shotty&uzi.

[frvge]

but in ct you have 70 (!) different gadget loadouts just with 4 out of 8 possible gadgets

???
8*7*6*5 = 1680 possibilities.
Of course, everyone takes mines and frags, so that leaves 8*7=56 possibilities then.

[BurningDeath]

Though, I agree the cam is too overpowered, you basicly have to run around with gasmask activated to prevent you fall asleep cause of it.

No way is cam to overpowered, everyone has just gotten really good at using it. Even quick cams are counter-able, if you can mask fast enough. I never run around a map with my GM on, even against the very best players. People just gotta get used to using the numbers instead of the scroll, u can mask like thrice as fast like that.

Actually, cams are overpowered. Maybe not for good players like you and me, but for everyone else its unbelievable, that you hear the milisecond of a sound and are ko'd.

[Gawain]

but in ct you have 70 (!) different gadget loadouts just with 4 out of 8 possible gadgets

???
8*7*6*5 = 1680 possibilities.
Of course, everyone takes mines and frags, so that leaves 8*7=56 possibilities then.

math-noob ;P
you gotta consider that the sequence doesn't matter, so you gotta divide your number by 4!.

[Cyntrox]

but in ct you have 70 (!) different gadget loadouts just with 4 out of 8 possible gadgets

???
8*7*6*5 = 1680 possibilities.
Of course, everyone takes mines and frags, so that leaves 8*7=56 possibilities then.

math-noob ;P
you gotta consider that the sequence doesn't matter, so you gotta divide your number by 4!.

That still gives 420, and 420 != 70 :P