Project Stealth

Archives => Presentation Forum => Topic started by: frvge on February 14, 2009, 06:17:53 PM

Title: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: frvge on February 14, 2009, 06:17:53 PM
Tick... Tock...
[ticktock=2009,1,15,23,0,0]Stuff[/ticktock]
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: frvge on February 14, 2009, 06:22:43 PM
It's only a small Tick Tock this time. Sorry for that.
And please don't quote the message, else my uber-haxxed Javascript screws up...

Disclaimer: I didn't make it UTC-proof yet. Time that it'll hit 0, it should be released. But timezones are annoying, so there could be some discrepancies. Will be fixed later.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Ion.67 on February 15, 2009, 12:34:11 AM
Tick... Tock...

Just because1
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Wanted_David on February 15, 2009, 03:36:13 AM
is the next feed related to valentine's day? like, you know, some merc neck-snaping love? maybe a spy dancing a valsa while grabing the merc? that would be so inside context...

PS: no, i'm not gay, i'm sensitive. someone give me a hug (preferably a girl ;)
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: frvge on February 15, 2009, 03:42:55 AM
no
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Farley4Fan on February 15, 2009, 07:15:49 AM
Yay, cool timer.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: LennardF1989 on February 15, 2009, 02:45:16 PM
Why not use a PHP script? PHP grabs time of the server then passes it to JavaScript, everything solved. And IE hates this topic now, it gives me random "Cannot be opened" messages.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: frvge on February 15, 2009, 03:06:44 PM
That was ion's fault. The countdown timer has an unique ID. If it's quoted, it's not unique and then IE goes crazy, which, in this case, is proper behaviour.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: LennardF1989 on February 15, 2009, 03:59:55 PM
Still happens though...
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Cyntrox on February 15, 2009, 04:05:21 PM
Why don't you just delete his post, then?
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: neth on February 15, 2009, 04:30:55 PM
Cool, I hope to see competely finished camo on running spy.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: frvge on February 15, 2009, 04:32:49 PM
Don't get your hopes up... as I said, it's only a small Tick Tock.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Ion.67 on February 15, 2009, 06:36:10 PM
I'm a rebel, what can I say. IE users should be skinned alive anyway. Bitches
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: frvge on February 15, 2009, 10:19:57 PM
I should have fixed the Timezone problem now :)
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Farley4Fan on February 15, 2009, 10:55:40 PM
I use IE, just on this computer, and it showed the timer.  Now you changed it to say that IE doesn't show the timer?  Don't get it.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: frvge on February 15, 2009, 11:26:23 PM
IE is fucking up. I spent almost 2 hours completely flabbergasted why
test.innerHTML = "something"; does not work.

So because IE is still used a lot, I'll debug later...

there's still 34 minutes to go as of this post.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: frvge on February 16, 2009, 12:00:27 AM
Tick...tock...tick...tock...

Booting data transmission system.
POST check... OK
Running unit tests... OK
Opening socket...OK
Securing socket... OK
Synching with data server... OK
Fetching comments... OK
Displaying comments: "Normal speed, 0.4x speed, 3x speed"

Transmitting data:

Sending data chunk #1:
Camo System (http://projectstealthgame.com/public/video/Camo-VFX.wmv)

Mirrors:
Camo (http://www.moddb.com/mods/project-stealth/videos/camo-visual-effect) - ModDB

Closing socket... OK
Destructing resources... OK
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Gurgaue on February 16, 2009, 12:13:32 AM
Looks really nice
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: AgentX_003 on February 16, 2009, 02:36:11 AM
Looks really nice


:/ Fail.......  GREAT job guys , You guys never fail to impress !
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Gawain on February 16, 2009, 12:17:02 PM
looks like quite a big gameplay/balance change lightning up like a christmas tree when activating it... oO
is there any good reason behind this?
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Gui Brazil on February 16, 2009, 01:00:50 PM
Because it looks pretty.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: LennardF1989 on February 16, 2009, 01:05:01 PM
...and because it will replace the sound effect.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: I <3 U on February 16, 2009, 02:14:35 PM
When camo's activated its invisible (in the video atleast). Is that just video quality issues or is it really that transparent in-game?
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Kurbutti on February 16, 2009, 02:21:59 PM
For a spy standing still that's probably the case.

I'd figure there being a visual cue whenever there's motion.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: neth on February 16, 2009, 02:46:53 PM
Well, we could expect more after 3 months with no update.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: LennardF1989 on February 16, 2009, 03:53:25 PM
No, there is disortion, even when standing still. Keep an eye on the couch, you see it's dislocated when you look through the spy.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: VaNilla on February 16, 2009, 05:19:36 PM
What can we expect in terms of distortion when walking, hanging, and things like that? I liked the swap by the way for the visual effect rather than a sound by the way, however it might be better if it flickers in and out too, as to cause confusion rather than being as clear as it is.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Gawain on February 16, 2009, 05:34:04 PM
Because it looks pretty.
not funny (though it's true, good art job at least)...
When camo's activated its invisible (in the video atleast). Is that just video quality issues or is it really that transparent in-game?
freeman, go check if you need glasses or a monitor calibration :P
...and because it will replace the sound effect.
the whole beauty of camo is that you can use it in the open and that it works best the bigger the distance. removing the activation sound is quite questionable on it's own, but replacing it with such a long and eye-catching visual effect is a very bad idea balance-wise.
Well, we could expect more after 3 months with no update.
sadly that's true. i really hope this project isn't dying slowly...
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Gui Brazil on February 16, 2009, 05:45:11 PM
Because it looks pretty.
not funny (though it's true, good art job at least)...

I had a blast saying it..
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Gawain on February 16, 2009, 06:31:00 PM
btw, did you make it to pixar? (looking at your avatar)
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Gui Brazil on February 16, 2009, 07:17:43 PM
As in, working for pixar? No, i'm 17.

I went to several studios, including pixar, dreamworks, paramount, warner, universal, ILM, etc, etc, when I was in california last year.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: I <3 U on February 16, 2009, 07:45:26 PM
Because it looks pretty.
not funny (though it's true, good art job at least)...
When camo's activated its invisible (in the video atleast). Is that just video quality issues or is it really that transparent in-game?
freeman, go check if you need glasses or a monitor calibration :P
...and because it will replace the sound effect.
the whole beauty of camo is that you can use it in the open and that it works best the bigger the distance. removing the activation sound is quite questionable on it's own, but replacing it with such a long and eye-catching visual effect is a very bad idea balance-wise.
[/qoute]

I agree. The visual cue will make it practically impossible to use if a merc is looking your way, no matter how far away he is....
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: frvge on February 16, 2009, 08:19:17 PM
Well, we could expect more after 3 months with no update.
I told you it would be a small update. If you can get me an artist who's willing to work at least 15 hours a week on Project Stealth, please contact me. Goes for programmers and animators too.

Of course, we have a bit more, like the other options in the poll, but it's not yet ready enough. Too raw.

As for the other comments:
Yes, currently the visual effect replaces the sound. Why? Sound can be heard across rooms, this effect won't bounce of many walls. If you are already in direct-sight of the Merc, that's silly.

There's a distortion/refraction, based on your speed and (probably) the distance to the Merc. It works like the MT-system: the closer/faster you are to a Merc, the more refraction (= easier to notice). However, if you are standing still next to an unsuspecting Merc, you're invisible.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: AgentX_003 on February 16, 2009, 11:41:48 PM
Well, we could expect more after 3 months with no update.
I told you it would be a small update. If you can get me an artist who's willing to work at least 15 hours a week on Project Stealth, please contact me. Goes for programmers and animators too.

Of course, we have a bit more, like the other options in the poll, but it's not yet ready enough. Too raw.

As for the other comments:
Yes, currently the visual effect replaces the sound. Why? Sound can be heard across rooms, this effect won't bounce of many walls. If you are already in direct-sight of the Merc, that's silly.

There's a distortion/refraction, based on your speed and (probably) the distance to the Merc. It works like the MT-system: the closer/faster you are to a Merc, the more refraction (= easier to notice). However, if you are standing still next to an unsuspecting Merc, you're invisible.


Don't mind neth, i talked to him over xfire and he like many don't understand its not just a simple rabbit out of the hat, and its funny how many people are so skeptical then get silenced when there is an update.


People for gods sake stop being soo negative , this kind of attitude doesn't really inspire hope, so stay positive , at least as i said before things are being produced and definitely not a half ass job like doubleagent was.  so chill!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: LennardF1989 on February 17, 2009, 12:15:20 AM
Well, as long as it's constructive I don't care about any feedback/critics given...
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Roberto1223 on February 17, 2009, 05:57:34 AM
sorry to say this guys. i know u wont consider my opinion, but i didnt like the camo..

the glow is like ridiculous.

suppose ur in a situation were u want to cross from one shadow to another separated by a light. to do so u have to turn ur camo on, but the god damn green-goblin glow gives u away.

fuckin great! yay!
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: AgentX_003 on February 17, 2009, 06:03:28 AM
sorry to say this guys. i know u wont consider my opinion, but i didnt like the camo..

the glow is like ridiculous.

suppose ur in a situation were u want to cross from one shadow to another separated by a light. to do so u have to turn ur camo on, but the god damn green-goblin glow gives u away.

fuckin great! yay!

:/ obviously the code is gunna be so only the spy sees the green and not the merc.....
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: frvge on February 17, 2009, 08:06:01 AM
In CT, you'd have the activation sound, which alerts all Mercs in a certain radius, including different rooms.
Now you only have to time that the Merc in the same room isn't looking at you.

If you're concealed, it should be fine.

We will playtest this of course.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Gawain on February 17, 2009, 12:58:09 PM
frvge, you're talking nonsense:
Quote
Yes, currently the visual effect replaces the sound. Why? Sound can be heard across rooms, this effect won't bounce of many walls. If you are already in direct-sight of the Merc, that's silly.
what's the visual effect good for if it's silly to activate in the mercs line of sight anyways? why the fuck don't you let it up to the player to decide what's silly and what could work in some special occasions??
Quote
There's a distortion/refraction, based on your speed and (probably) the distance to the Merc. It works like the MT-system: the closer/faster you are to a Merc, the more refraction (= easier to notice). However, if you are standing still next to an unsuspecting Merc, you're invisible.
we don't need that. camo is meant to be good at distance, not up close. it also makes no sense to further nerf moving with camo as it's easier to make out a moving distortion than a static one anyways.
Quote
suppose ur in a situation were u want to cross from one shadow to another separated by a light. to do so u have to turn ur camo on, but the god damn green-goblin glow gives u away.
damn right.
what about simply making the camo activation noise so gentle that it can't be heard across the whole map? if you allow something like super-eax-hearing the whole game will suck anyways, so don't tell me that you guys have no influence over the sound system and that it blows in this engine, because if that's the case this whole project is doomed anyways.
it's stuff like that that clearly shows you need someone responsible for balance decisions cause you obviously have no clue how small changes have effect on the gameplay.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: neth on February 17, 2009, 01:14:55 PM

Don't mind neth, i talked to him over xfire and he like many don't understand its not just a simple rabbit out of the hat, and its funny how many people are so skeptical then get silenced when there is an update.

People for gods sake stop being soo negative , this kind of attitude doesn't really inspire hope, so stay positive , at least as i said before things are being produced and definitely not a half ass job like doubleagent was.  so chill!!!!!!!!

Im realistic. If you can't find people who would be willing to work 2 hours a day, then we've got a serious problem here. And seriously, please stop saying you are so busy that you don't have time for anything, just admit it's a matter of willingness.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Snakebit. on February 17, 2009, 01:28:11 PM
I am skeptcal about project stealth still but not because of its production but simply because not many people will play it.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: frvge on February 17, 2009, 01:30:24 PM
I admit we have a problem in allocation. People either are just too busy, other people lack willingness/motivation. That's the reason why I'm constantly looking for new talent :)

@Snakebit,
Don't worry too much about that.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: SCDuRiN on February 17, 2009, 05:28:12 PM
Really nice camo, great job guys :).
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Snakebit. on February 17, 2009, 09:00:41 PM
Heh it is just a general concern of mine ....
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Farley4Fan on February 18, 2009, 12:51:02 AM
Looks great.  Not sure what the lighting up might do to gameplay but we'll save that discussion until testing.  Very impressive guys.   :)
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Zedblade on February 18, 2009, 11:34:08 AM
frvge, you're talking nonsense:
Quote
Yes, currently the visual effect replaces the sound. Why? Sound can be heard across rooms, this effect won't bounce of many walls. If you are already in direct-sight of the Merc, that's silly.
what's the visual effect good for if it's silly to activate in the mercs line of sight anyways? why the fuck don't you let it up to the player to decide what's silly and what could work in some special occasions??
Quote
There's a distortion/refraction, based on your speed and (probably) the distance to the Merc. It works like the MT-system: the closer/faster you are to a Merc, the more refraction (= easier to notice). However, if you are standing still next to an unsuspecting Merc, you're invisible.
we don't need that. camo is meant to be good at distance, not up close. it also makes no sense to further nerf moving with camo as it's easier to make out a moving distortion than a static one anyways.
Quote
suppose ur in a situation were u want to cross from one shadow to another separated by a light. to do so u have to turn ur camo on, but the god damn green-goblin glow gives u away.
damn right.
what about simply making the camo activation noise so gentle that it can't be heard across the whole map? if you allow something like super-eax-hearing the whole game will suck anyways, so don't tell me that you guys have no influence over the sound system and that it blows in this engine, because if that's the case this whole project is doomed anyways.
it's stuff like that that clearly shows you need someone responsible for balance decisions cause you obviously have no clue how small changes have effect on the gameplay.

The green glow is a nerf to offset buffs we have planned. Like the ability to be in Camo during any movement (even full sprint.) Energy will decrease at different speeds, depending on what you are doing. So, creeping along at slowest speeds will very slowly deplete energy, while sprinting will deplete it really fast, but you will still be able to do it for a few seconds. Camo isn't just for using far away, just because YOU used it for that doesn't mean everyone else will. Like you said let players decide how they will use it. If you activated it when a Merc is looking at you, that's your fault for being stupid. The Merc will never stare in your direction for too long and if he does, he already knows you are there. Now that the Camo will last much longer if you are moving at your slowest speed, activate it in another room and sneak in.

In the end, all we can do is test. If this doesn't work, then we will change it. NOTHING is set in stone and sometimes the most logical choice can turn out to be the most unbalanced device during gameplay. So, please hold off on all the disgruntled balance rants until you know more.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: LennardF1989 on February 18, 2009, 12:42:02 PM
That again proves the fact I described multiple times, you guys care too much about balance. Nothing wrong with that, but that's our work to judge. It's your work to give us l33t idea's to make the game better (like Kubanator's Gadget thread, it's one of the most useful ones we've seen in a while).
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Gawain on February 18, 2009, 04:11:44 PM
roflcopter, running around with camo, speed-based energy drain, no activasion noise, invisible up close, lighting up like a christmas tree activating it in the shadows, seriously, cmon!
if even you as one of the main devs with tons of ingame experience doesn't see all the flaws in these bullshit changes, ps is doomed...
what the fuck happened to the concept of staying as close to ct gameplay as balance and new engine allows, at least in the first builds?
i wonder what other silly changes you guys have in mind oO
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: frvge on February 18, 2009, 04:17:58 PM
The camo system in Crysis worked ok. We'll see how it goes in playtesting.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: LennardF1989 on February 18, 2009, 04:28:22 PM
For everyones information, we happen to make the game for ourselves (hence the name "free-time project"), that we have a community behind is just a lucky coincidense (as just us 13 playing would be boring eventually). If we feel like we should implement something cool looking (in this case the Camo), it will happen.

Just don't forget, what we think up now usually is something of which we think it will turn out awesome. Later on, while testing it, it may turn out either good or bad. For now, we are statisfied with the results.

If you don't have the patience to wait how PS turns out, then start you're own project team and go make a complete clone of CT on your own. I'm sure Ubisoft would love to hear about it, you might even get some real friendly mails from them that they support your project all the way.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: frvge on February 18, 2009, 04:36:03 PM
^ = Lennard's personal point of view btw...
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Kubanator on February 18, 2009, 04:37:07 PM
Ok, first of all, it's not final. They can change it as much as they want. They could make it fast, decrease the brightness, remove it completely and introduce a sound, change the rate it drains, etc. they are the devs, they know what they're doing. When the alpha/beta comes, and the camo is useless or overpowered, the devs will change it until it's balanced. Seriously, just chillax. It's ok to try to explain your point of view, but don't force it.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Gawain on February 18, 2009, 06:14:35 PM
frvge: just for the record, crysis gameplay sucked. besides, comparing svm with crysis is like comparing natural selection with counterstrike.
lennard: you sound like a little child defending his toy. the aim of this project never was to please the devs, but to create what ubi failed to create. don't drive people away with immature remarks like "go clone your own game"...
kubanator: they don't know what their doing just because they call themselves "devs".
why should programming or 3d gfx skills make you competent for gameplay/balance issues?

if you don't want people to offer criticism i wonder what this forum is good for.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: VaNilla on February 18, 2009, 07:09:43 PM
For me to have a bit of criticism, the time you can use Camo for when running would have to be terribly short if you want it to be balanced in any way :P.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: frvge on February 18, 2009, 07:17:57 PM
Correct. 1-2 seconds max. We'll figure out the time during playtests.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Gui Brazil on February 18, 2009, 07:48:36 PM
kubanator: they don't know what their doing just because they call themselves "devs".
why should programming or 3d gfx skills make you competent for gameplay/balance issues?

And I suppose you'd be the perfect person to solve all the problems, right?

It's our experience playing CT, each with 500/600/700/1000 hours, that makes us "competent" for gameplay/balance issues (just like spekkio, sithduke or whoever else with a decent amount of time on it is, which might include you), not the fact that one can code/animate/model/texure.

Besides, I'm not understanding why you're taking it so personally when we have already said that if it doesn't work we'll change it.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Zedblade on February 18, 2009, 09:07:26 PM
roflcopter, running around with camo, speed-based energy drain, no activasion noise, invisible up close, lighting up like a christmas tree activating it in the shadows, seriously, cmon!
if even you as one of the main devs with tons of ingame experience doesn't see all the flaws in these bullshit changes, ps is doomed...
what the fuck happened to the concept of staying as close to ct gameplay as balance and new engine allows, at least in the first builds?
i wonder what other silly changes you guys have in mind oO


In the end, all we can do is test. If this doesn't work, then we will change it. NOTHING is set in stone and sometimes the most logical choice can turn out to be the most unbalanced device during gameplay. So, please hold off on all the disgruntled balance rants until you know more.

Relax man. Jeez.

Yes, we are basing PS off of CT. BUT THIS IS NOT CT, THIS IS PS and we will make changes where WE WANT TO. If those changes don't work, we will try something else.

If you are so amazingly smart and know how to balance a game perfectly WITHOUT EVEN PLAYING OR TESTING IT FIRST, please fill us in and share you infinite wealth of knowledge.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Ion.67 on February 18, 2009, 11:45:41 PM
frvge: just for the record, crysis gameplay sucked. besides, comparing svm with crysis is like comparing natural selection with counterstrike.
lennard: you sound like a little child defending his toy. the aim of this project never was to please the devs, but to create what ubi failed to create. don't drive people away with immature remarks like "go clone your own game"...
kubanator: they don't know what their doing just because they call themselves "devs".
why should programming or 3d gfx skills make you competent for gameplay/balance issues?

if you don't want people to offer criticism i wonder what this forum is good for.

Let me be the first to say:

You are a fucking retard.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: LennardF1989 on February 19, 2009, 12:22:46 AM
Quote
Yes, we are basing PS off of CT. BUT THIS IS NOT CT, THIS IS PS and we will make changes where WE WANT TO. If those changes don't work, we will try something else.

That basically sums up what I tried to say before...

Rambo is not a retard, he can just overreact at some times, that's how I should call it though (like most of the people here, he's afraid PS will be worser than CT* and tries everything to prevent that). None the less, he's always there on XFire when you need him (like yesterday, Rambo ;)).

* Which would be an epic fail for us btw...
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: AgentX_003 on February 19, 2009, 03:39:18 AM
frvge, you're talking nonsense:
Quote
Yes, currently the visual effect replaces the sound. Why? Sound can be heard across rooms, this effect won't bounce of many walls. If you are already in direct-sight of the Merc, that's silly.
what's the visual effect good for if it's silly to activate in the mercs line of sight anyways? why the fuck don't you let it up to the player to decide what's silly and what could work in some special occasions??
Quote
There's a distortion/refraction, based on your speed and (probably) the distance to the Merc. It works like the MT-system: the closer/faster you are to a Merc, the more refraction (= easier to notice). However, if you are standing still next to an unsuspecting Merc, you're invisible.
we don't need that. camo is meant to be good at distance, not up close. it also makes no sense to further nerf moving with camo as it's easier to make out a moving distortion than a static one anyways.
Quote
suppose ur in a situation were u want to cross from one shadow to another separated by a light. to do so u have to turn ur camo on, but the god damn green-goblin glow gives u away.
damn right.
what about simply making the camo activation noise so gentle that it can't be heard across the whole map? if you allow something like super-eax-hearing the whole game will suck anyways, so don't tell me that you guys have no influence over the sound system and that it blows in this engine, because if that's the case this whole project is doomed anyways.
it's stuff like that that clearly shows you need someone responsible for balance decisions cause you obviously have no clue how small changes have effect on the gameplay.

The green glow is a nerf to offset buffs we have planned. Like the ability to be in Camo during any movement (even full sprint.) Energy will decrease at different speeds, depending on what you are doing. So, creeping along at slowest speeds will very slowly deplete energy, while sprinting will deplete it really fast, but you will still be able to do it for a few seconds. Camo isn't just for using far away, just because YOU used it for that doesn't mean everyone else will. Like you said let players decide how they will use it. If you activated it when a Merc is looking at you, that's your fault for being stupid. The Merc will never stare in your direction for too long and if he does, he already knows you are there. Now that the Camo will last much longer if you are moving at your slowest speed, activate it in another room and sneak in.

In the end, all we can do is test. If this doesn't work, then we will change it. NOTHING is set in stone and sometimes the most logical choice can turn out to be the most unbalanced device during gameplay. So, please hold off on all the disgruntled balance rants until you know more.


Amen to that and Rambo is the type of person who ya just can't reason with :/
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Gawain on February 19, 2009, 12:42:38 PM
i may be harsh, but quite frankly, i'm more reasonable than most of you.
with those drastic changes camo will play a totally different role ingame:
-you have to be in cover to activate it instead of shadows
-you can activate it right next to the merc without him knowing
-camping with camo get's a boost because it stays longer activated (i know that wasting time is bad anyways, but this takes a lot away from the timing part)
-with mt and emf getting that much weakened, camo and flashbangs will get a huge boost anyways, so you have to seriously nerf aggro capabilities of the spies or balance will totally shift towards the spy side

the new camo concept sounds fun for more dynamic and up-close use, but it won't fit in very well that way. if you wanna make it work, you should replace the visual effect with a sound similar to ct that can only be heard within 3-5meters (alarm snares should also make camo sound btw) and make the duration something like 15s-cv^-2 and play with c a lot till it feels right. the visibility should only be affected by lightning and distance, not by speed (except for running and falling). you should also play around with blour instead of optical fraction or a mixture of both (2142 camo <> ct camo).

now that i gave good reasons and some constructive roundup, please tell me: what exactly made you think that changing camo this way  was a good idea?
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: VaNilla on February 19, 2009, 04:05:56 PM
i may be harsh, but quite frankly, i'm more reasonable than most of you.
with those drastic changes camo will play a totally different role ingame:
-you have to be in cover to activate it instead of shadows
-you can activate it right next to the merc without him knowing
-camping with camo get's a boost because it stays longer activated (i know that wasting time is bad anyways, but this takes a lot away from the timing part)
-with mt and emf getting that much weakened, camo and flashbangs will get a huge boost anyways, so you have to seriously nerf aggro capabilities of the spies or balance will totally shift towards the spy side

First off, why would you activate camo in the shadows unless a merc wasn't around so that you could progress to another area? You can activate camo anywhere, it depends on the situation, you would have only activated camo in shadows for the same reason in CT if you have any sesne. Secondly, why would you activate a camo suit right next to the merc. Thirdly, you do not camp with camo, you use it to move ahead to your objective. Finally, how do you know exactly how the timing and gadgets are going to effect balance in a game you've never played? I think your clutching at straws here to be honest.

Correct. 1-2 seconds max. We'll figure out the time during playtests.

To be honest, if it were that you might as well not include it, it would be out almost directly after the visual effect :P.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Bubbaganoosh on February 19, 2009, 05:25:25 PM
I read alot here but don't post very often but reading this thread made me ill. I look at some of the comments people made here and can't beleive it. Some of you are already whining about balance and function and the game isn't even close to finished yet. These guys may get a new idea a month from now and change this. Hell it may change ten times before the game is finished. Be patient people, I'm sure it will be worth the wait.

Constructive critism never hurts but complaints and useless comments do nobody any good and you should keep them to yourself. To the one who said "Well, we could expect more after 3 months with no update." I suggest you do a project like this while you work, take care of your family and other life challenges and have something new to release every week or two. Yeah, likely won't happen.

I think the progress you guys are making is damn good considering this is a spare time thing. I started to make a map in UT3 and couldn't beleive how long it took to have almost nothing to show. You guys are making all the static meshes, animations and alot of textures from scratch aren't you? Not to mention all the sound and lighting issues for the maps and animations.

I think the camo looks pretty good and likely took a long time to get it to this point. Keep up the good work guys and I for one look forward to the next thing you have to show no matter when that is.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Gawain on February 19, 2009, 05:49:10 PM
stonecoldkilla: how about reading the whole thread before writing nonsense?

Quote
First off, why would you activate camo in the shadows unless a merc wasn't around so that you could progress to another area? You can activate camo anywhere, it depends on the situation, you would have only activated camo in shadows for the same reason in CT if you have any sesne.
when i want to move from one shadow to another crossing a light up area, that's when. in ct i can activate the camo in the shadow, and with this new camo "feature" i would have to do it behind cover. i dont't give a shit about the case that no merc is in the area because i wouldn't need camo in that case anyways.

Quote
Secondly, why would you activate a camo suit right next to the merc.

in ct i wouldn't, but with this new camo you could activate it 0.5m next to him without him hearing anything.

Quote
Thirdly, you do not camp with camo, you use it to move ahead to your objective.
exactly. so why would you wanna implement a mechanic like speed-dependant energy drain that helps camping for necks and makes moving to objectives harder?

Quote
Finally, how do you know exactly how the timing and gadgets are going to effect balance in a game you've never played?
it doesn't take a genious to understand that all those drastic changes will affect gameplay hugely. unless the team comes up with some really good arguments (which it didn't; looking "cool" is no point at all), i'm winning this argument.

bubbaganoosh: don't spam bullshit when all your saying is "good job team fuck criticism".
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: AgentX_003 on February 19, 2009, 05:56:02 PM
stonecoldkilla: how about reading the whole thread before writing nonsense?

Quote
First off, why would you activate camo in the shadows unless a merc wasn't around so that you could progress to another area? You can activate camo anywhere, it depends on the situation, you would have only activated camo in shadows for the same reason in CT if you have any sesne.
when i want to move from one shadow to another crossing a light up area, that's when. in ct i can activate the camo in the shadow, and with this new camo "feature" i would have to do it behind cover. i dont't give a shit about the case that no merc is in the area because i wouldn't need camo in that case anyways.

Quote
Secondly, why would you activate a camo suit right next to the merc.

in ct i wouldn't, but with this new camo you could activate it 0.5m next to him without him hearing anything.

Quote
Thirdly, you do not camp with camo, you use it to move ahead to your objective.
exactly. so why would you wanna implement a mechanic like speed-dependant energy drain that helps camping for necks and makes moving to objectives harder?

Quote
Finally, how do you know exactly how the timing and gadgets are going to effect balance in a game you've never played?
it doesn't take a genious to understand that all those drastic changes will affect gameplay hugely. unless the team comes up with some really good arguments (which it didn't; looking "cool" is no point at all), i'm winning this argument.

bubbaganoosh: don't spam bullshit when all your saying is "good job team fuck criticism".


Rambo get off your high horse sir because honestly this kind of attitude just drives people away , so stop it ! .
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: LennardF1989 on February 19, 2009, 07:03:45 PM
@STON3COLDKILLA: The 1-2 seconds frvge mentioned is the duration of the XMAS TREE Effect, not the actual camo usage time ;)
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Gawain on February 19, 2009, 07:12:47 PM
i'd be okay with the idiotic "XMAS TREE Effect" if every downloader of ps gets a nice cookie parcel from mr.mic  ;D
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Zedblade on February 20, 2009, 03:21:41 PM
I read alot here but don't post very often but reading this thread made me ill. I look at some of the comments people made here and can't beleive it. Some of you are already whining about balance and function and the game isn't even close to finished yet. These guys may get a new idea a month from now and change this. Hell it may change ten times before the game is finished. Be patient people, I'm sure it will be worth the wait.

Constructive critism never hurts but complaints and useless comments do nobody any good and you should keep them to yourself. To the one who said "Well, we could expect more after 3 months with no update." I suggest you do a project like this while you work, take care of your family and other life challenges and have something new to release every week or two. Yeah, likely won't happen.

I think the progress you guys are making is damn good considering this is a spare time thing. I started to make a map in UT3 and couldn't beleive how long it took to have almost nothing to show. You guys are making all the static meshes, animations and alot of textures from scratch aren't you? Not to mention all the sound and lighting issues for the maps and animations.

I think the camo looks pretty good and likely took a long time to get it to this point. Keep up the good work guys and I for one look forward to the next thing you have to show no matter when that is.

Post more often. I'm in love with you.

Anyway, Rambo, your biggest problem is that you are still set in a CT mindset and are trying to incorporate the camo changes into established Ct gameplay. STOP! That is not how it works. PS is going to play very much like Ct, but at the same time very differently. CT and DA had the same concept and they are completely different MPs. Think the same with PS... accept PS won't be as horrible and water downed as the DA MP...

I hope... :P
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: LennardF1989 on February 20, 2009, 03:53:04 PM
I read alot here but don't post very often but reading this thread made me ill. I look at some of the comments people made here and can't beleive it. Some of you are already whining about balance and function and the game isn't even close to finished yet. These guys may get a new idea a month from now and change this. Hell it may change ten times before the game is finished. Be patient people, I'm sure it will be worth the wait.

Constructive critism never hurts but complaints and useless comments do nobody any good and you should keep them to yourself. To the one who said "Well, we could expect more after 3 months with no update." I suggest you do a project like this while you work, take care of your family and other life challenges and have something new to release every week or two. Yeah, likely won't happen.

I think the progress you guys are making is damn good considering this is a spare time thing. I started to make a map in UT3 and couldn't beleive how long it took to have almost nothing to show. You guys are making all the static meshes, animations and alot of textures from scratch aren't you? Not to mention all the sound and lighting issues for the maps and animations.

I think the camo looks pretty good and likely took a long time to get it to this point. Keep up the good work guys and I for one look forward to the next thing you have to show no matter when that is.
Have my babies ;D
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Gawain on February 20, 2009, 04:58:50 PM
zed, i have no problem with changes that make sense. so far the only reason for that change i've heard is that it looks cool.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: LennardF1989 on February 20, 2009, 05:22:15 PM
Do we need a reason to implement something cool looking? Heck, if the team wants a bazooka for the spy, we'll get a bazooka for the spy, without reasoning :P
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: MR.Mic on February 20, 2009, 08:34:00 PM
We're simply trading an audio cue, which is 360 degrees and notifies the mercs even behind walls with a visual cue which is only 90 degrees, and doesn't notifiy the merc through walls.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Westfall on February 21, 2009, 03:14:37 AM
We're simply trading an audio cue, which is 360 degrees and notifies the mercs even behind walls with a visual cue which is only 90 degrees, and doesn't notifiy the merc through walls.

Well put. I'm glad Mic had to come in here and clear something up that was already stated. It balanced itself out Rambo. If you still don't understand it, then stay in CT land forever plz....wait...already happening it seems.

I think the camo looks great. It will also server a far better purpose than that of CT's garbage camo.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Roberto1223 on February 21, 2009, 08:57:25 AM
at first i didnt like it but its good to try new things so cool.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Zedblade on February 22, 2009, 10:17:15 AM
zed, i have no problem with changes that make sense. so far the only reason for that change i've heard is that it looks cool.

that was stated once as a joke, and we have said the real reason for the change tons of times throughout the 5 pages of this thread. For some reason, you are choosing to ignore them.
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: Farley4Fan on February 23, 2009, 05:46:49 AM
Rambo, they said it was to offset some of the boosts they would be making to camo.  We aren't sure what those boosts are or what they will do to gameplay, I doubt the devs are entirely sure themselves, but all we can do is take them at their word and complain about changes when we see those changes IN ACTION. 

I am actually a bit more curious about this effect when the camo turns off.  Will this glowing effect happen when camo turns off?  Surprised no one has asked that yet.  And no, not complaining.  Just wondering.
Title: Re: Tick Tock
Post by: Gawain on February 23, 2009, 12:34:08 PM
We're simply trading an audio cue, which is 360 degrees and notifies the mercs even behind walls with a visual cue which is only 90 degrees, and doesn't notifiy the merc through walls.
how about fixing the sound instead??
such a gentle sound isn't meant to be heard through walls or in distances over 5m in the first place ffs...
besides, why do you think it's a good idea that you can activate camo 2m behind the merc without him knowing but not 20m away from him in some shadow?
Rambo, they said it was to offset some of the boosts they would be making to camo.
and they did give no reason at all why they want to boost camo in that way, and why this was a good offset for the boost.
basically there were only 3 things wrong with ct camo:
-mercs mt and emf whored (gone in ps with the new balanced visions)
-camo activation noise could be heard on the whole map with eax superhearing
-too visible with high resolutions and gamma hax
what the fuck happened to your balance-ct-first-then-try-out-fancy-changes-approach?
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: frvge on February 23, 2009, 04:01:43 PM
We don't need a reason to try things out. If it plays bad, then it's out. You will probably get the opportunity to playtest yourself in beta-stage, or possibly even alpha. So any errors that are left in the final version, are most likely to 'blame' for the community. >D harhar. Basically: if you don't like it after testing it, file it as a complaint/bug. If many people agree, we'll change it.
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: Gawain on February 23, 2009, 05:57:04 PM
Quote
We don't need a reason to try things out.
making crazy balance changes without any reasonable motivation behind it is plain stupid. you should start playing around with stuff like this after having a running beta with all the ct engine and balance problems fixed, and definitely not before.
it's also naive to believe that in such a small community you will get useful feedback on gameplay/balance by listening to the foolish majority. the result of this will be balance like in ea or ubisoft games at best, and not something similar to valve or blizzard games.
but who am i to criticize you developer gods? i'm gonna dissappear till this goes beta cause it's a waste of time.
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: I <3 U on February 23, 2009, 07:12:29 PM
Quote
We don't need a reason to try things out.
making crazy balance changes without any reasonable motivation behind it is plain stupid. you should start playing around with stuff like this after having a running beta with all the ct engine and balance problems fixed, and definitely not before.
it's also naive to believe that in such a small community you will get useful feedback on gameplay/balance by listening to the foolish majority.

And your word is worth much more than the rest of the community? The devs know what they're doing...remember they did all play CT, most of them to quite a high level. I trust the devs enough to let them decide whats good / bad for gameplay more than one angry german dude named tristan :D.

I'm going to back AgentX for once, and agree with him. You sir need to get off of your high horse.
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: Snakebit. on February 23, 2009, 07:28:01 PM
Camo got a bit overpowering in my opinion. How am i supposed to kill a spy if he can stand still on 1 place and be unseen ?
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: frvge on February 23, 2009, 07:30:16 PM
Switch to EMF? Or look for a small refraction.
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: Snakebit. on February 23, 2009, 07:37:03 PM
Switch to EMF? Or look for a small refraction.

You can't hear them turn on camo.... So how would i know when to switch on emf ?
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: frvge on February 23, 2009, 08:23:29 PM
You dont... that's why you should probably cycle through your visions when you enter a room ;) Something you probably do already to detect cams and stuff.

[edit: cams.. not mines, silly]
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: Roberto1223 on February 24, 2009, 12:19:10 AM
Switch to EMF? Or look for a small refraction.

You can't hear them turn on camo.... So how would i know when to switch on emf ?


dont act stupid... u already know the answer to that.


only nubs dont cycle through visions in SCCT...
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: Westfall on February 24, 2009, 03:47:26 AM
Quote
We don't need a reason to try things out.
making crazy balance changes without any reasonable motivation behind it is plain stupid. you should start playing around with stuff like this after having a running beta with all the ct engine and balance problems fixed, and definitely not before.
it's also naive to believe that in such a small community you will get useful feedback on gameplay/balance by listening to the foolish majority. the result of this will be balance like in ea or ubisoft games at best, and not something similar to valve or blizzard games.
but who am i to criticize you developer gods? i'm gonna dissappear till this goes beta cause it's a waste of time.

"I'm gonna disappear till this goes beta cause it's a waste of time."

Kind of like your post here...Quit humping CT and get ready for something better. Otherwise, continue to make hamachi servers with this glitchy piece of shit game after UBI turns off the CT servers....bet your ass I'll be all over PS, because it won't be a piece of shit like CT. Welcome to a new game. This is Project Stealth Rambo. If you want CT, hit up the Convictions center for retards...they have vacancies.
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: Ion.67 on February 24, 2009, 05:49:53 AM
No one likes you anyway, good. Go away for however long you want.
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: ray mysertio on March 10, 2009, 02:40:53 PM
not to rip on you guys but i think its kinda ugly ... like a UT3 green goop matrix cheesy-ness type thing ... just my opinion.
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet on March 10, 2009, 03:17:44 PM
not to rip on you guys but i think its kinda ugly ... like a UT3 green goop matrix cheesy-ness type thing ... just my opinion.
NO IT LOOKS AWESOME!
It reminds me of the thermal camouflage from the '95 Ghost in the Shell movie. Awesome.
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: Westfall on March 10, 2009, 04:36:56 PM
not to rip on you guys but i think its kinda ugly ... like a UT3 green goop matrix cheesy-ness type thing ... just my opinion.

Is that all that you don't like about it? It's "ugly".....
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: frvge on March 10, 2009, 06:25:45 PM
Some of the crispness got lost in two transcodings. Originally, it looks a sligfhtly better. Now it's a bit more blurry. But the final game version won't have suffered from transcodings so it should be fine.
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: I <3 U on March 10, 2009, 06:47:48 PM
Some of the crispness got lost in two transcodings. Originally, it looks a sligfhtly better. Now it's a bit more blurry. But the final game version won't have suffered from transcodings so it should be fine.

lol dont you mean encoding? :D
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: frvge on March 10, 2009, 07:15:44 PM
Encoding is creating a different file from a source, an image. Transcoding is translating an image from type A to type B. In this case, the raw AVI was encoded to wmv, then the wmv was transcoded to another wmv, but thereby it lost more detail.
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: Chaos Theory Who on January 11, 2010, 11:44:35 AM
Well its now January of 2010. I was just curious whats become of the camo? that was one of my favorite gadgets, along with the heartbeat sensor. until the 360 ruined it with the green outline.
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: frvge on January 11, 2010, 12:23:20 PM
It's afaik the same as shown in the latest video.
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: Spekkio on January 11, 2010, 05:02:27 PM
Late to this thread (obviously), but I like the new camo effect. Neat way of making sure that spies can't activate it at the 11th hour of a merc passing by + it looks really cool.

I also think your idea of varying the energy drain is ingenious. It's like...so obvious, but no one thought of it.

I'm still crossing my fingers for camo and gasmask to be inherent equipment...
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: frvge on January 11, 2010, 05:24:23 PM
Everything is possible. xD. And thanks for your compliment.
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: comicsserg on May 12, 2010, 02:32:32 PM
Have a question about camo effect. It looks pretty good, but now you can't see the spy.
I was thinking that like in SC the spy was transparent but you could see the edges it like the water that refracts on the edges.
So if the spy completely transparent (like now) it's immpossible for merc to see him.
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: frvge on May 12, 2010, 03:24:54 PM
There's refraction based on speed and distance to the Merc.
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: comicsserg on May 12, 2010, 03:36:05 PM
aaa ok then :)
Can merc see a spy with his vision if a spy in camo mode?
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: frvge on May 12, 2010, 04:45:28 PM
Yes, with EMF. Maybe with Motion tracking too, but I'm not sure about that.
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: comicsserg on May 12, 2010, 04:46:29 PM
Ok I think just emf otherwise it's not fair
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: Farley4Fan on May 12, 2010, 09:55:02 PM
Comic, I think Frvge means that the merc might be able to see a spy using camo if the spy is moving.

I personally think that camo needs a boost and if it can be a good motion tracking counter then it might become a viable gadget.
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: Gawain on May 13, 2010, 02:39:40 PM
the biggest boost for camo is taking away the activation sound.
replacing it with the light flash, however, has some serious drawbacks.
it prohibits sneaking from shadow to shadow which should be one of the main uses of camo.
on the other side, all those changes make camo way more dangerous up close which is great for interactivity.
i also like that you can hide with camo from emf now standing in front of emf-active materials.
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: frvge on May 13, 2010, 03:30:47 PM
Oh, didn't think of that last thing yet. Nice job.
Title: Re: Tick Tock - Camo video
Post by: Farley4Fan on May 13, 2010, 09:26:04 PM
the biggest boost for camo is taking away the activation sound.
replacing it with the light flash, however, has some serious drawbacks.
it prohibits sneaking from shadow to shadow which should be one of the main uses of camo.
on the other side, all those changes make camo way more dangerous up close which is great for interactivity.
i also like that you can hide with camo from emf now standing in front of emf-active materials.

In my experience with xbox CT, camo was a completely different story.  It was made useless when the 360 came out due to a bug that Ubi never intended fixing.  But before that, it was never really that useful.  Even with the lack of EAX and the pretty-much-silent activation sound.  It wasn't bad, it was just considered dumb to bring camo instead of one of the other gadgets. 

What I'm saying is that maybe removing the activation sound isn't enough.  This will undoubtedly be tested but I'm just predicting that it will probably need some more uses thrown in.  Like not being seen on motion tracking, for example.  I don't think the flash when it activates is smart to include for the reasons rambo already stated.  It's weak, why make it weaker?