Project Stealth

Archives => Presentation Forum => Topic started by: frvge on August 19, 2012, 12:08:42 AM

Title: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: frvge on August 19, 2012, 12:08:42 AM
Hi all,

Everyone agrees that PS is taking too long to develop. The reason for this is pretty simple: we want quality and people with the needed skillset are hard to find. People that stay and give positive value to the project are even harder to find. Most of the Try-out people get various tests. The results of these tests are in one way or another beneficial for PS and/or for the skillset of the person applying for a role. However, this process can take up to 1.5 months, depending on how fast the applicant is. If the applicant then is approved and allowed in the Core Dev team, they often have changing lives and have to resign because of this (less time than expected etc). The total "value" is then the limited number of results from tests (some are not useful for PS) minus the time put in training and recruiting of that applicant. On average, this value is low or negative unfortunately.

If you look at it from another perspective, we might get more value with more contributors that stick to the project for a longer period, although the initial quality itself might be less than the current one. This is not a big deal: with the time people put into the various skills, they will become better at those skills and will hopefully remake models that aren't up to par.

With all this aside, I'd like to present:
Community Map: Stage 1 (Brainstorm)(haha, Comic Sans-ed!)
The idea is that you post ideas for maps, with a background. For each map, you should ask yourselft the following questions:

Those are some points that I personally use when I brainstorm about maps. They are fairly high-level, so you can think of more yourself. If you have a good point, post it and I can add it to the list.

Thanks and I'm very curuious what you guys can come up with. After a few ideas, let's say 4-5, we'll have a poll to pick the best one. then it's on to Stage 2: designing the map and concept art.

frvge
Title: Re: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: NeoSuperior on August 19, 2012, 01:26:20 AM
Well, personally I think that instead of creating a map around a story, wouldn't it be a lot easier to create a story based on a map?
This is like literature... FIRST you create the setting, the characters, etc. and THEN you create the story around that (at least from the perspective of the reader)

In other words: I suggest we mix stage 2 with stage 1 and prirotize the design before the backgroundstory.


Aside from that:
Things that (imo) should be considered before creating a map:


1. What size do you want the map to have?

2. In what kind of order do you want the (yet unknown kind of) objectives to be done? Do it like club house where you have access to them all from the start? Or do it in a Sector system like warehouse? Or possibly a completly different System that will blow our minds?

3. [SUGGESTION] Do you want (if possible) to make the merc be the ones who have to do the objectives instead of the spy? Or do you prefer the classical spy infiltrators?

4. Do you want the map to be dark, but with only a few spy-exclusive passages, or do you prefer a bright map but with lots of spy-exclusive passages? Or maybe a middle ground?


That was my "brainstorming" for now. Maybe i get more ideas later on.
Title: Re: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: frvge on August 19, 2012, 01:31:14 AM
Working from a setting is better than from a design, especially in the realism perspective for consistency.

The rest is good for stage 2, but we're sticking to stage 1 for now. So please focus on locaiton ideas for now.

Title: Re: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: Pusianka on August 19, 2012, 01:56:35 AM
hah funnily on my trip to Albania we were told by the guide about a perfect place for a map. In Albania there is a port built inside of a mountain and its super huge and so on, all the tunnels make up for 16 kms and the best part is: It was never used! Because the entrances were too small and the tide and waves too big to get into that port without crushing into the cliff. I think there is plenty to do around this idea.
Title: Re: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: frvge on August 19, 2012, 04:11:19 AM
Well, work it out with help from the points given above.
Title: Re: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: NeoSuperior on August 19, 2012, 05:31:53 AM
Some people on the forums discussed about a "Fort Knox" map some time ago. A government gold depot (IIRC) would make an interesting place for spy vs merc.

Time: near future

Story: Some time ago the non-government-company "AE" bought former gold storage "Fort Knox" from the government, because the U.S.A. had a new and more modern depot called "Fort X6" (comment: who gets the easter eggs?  ;) )
Now the government is in a financial crisis and they risk sending in [insert name of PS spies] to get their necessary funds for their campaign, however AE's information network helped them to find out about the attack shortly before it happens. In reaction to the imminent attack, AE sends out [insert name of PS mercs], one of the best PMCs in the world, to prevent the attack from being a success.



This would make the spies look kind of evil and would show a typical "fight over money".
Title: Re: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: feev on August 19, 2012, 07:31:05 PM
Presenting map idea: Airport


Let's go a step further...

Title: Re: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: frvge on August 19, 2012, 07:55:48 PM
Try a bit with more text in the answers. Also, where do the normal passengers go? You can fake stuff, but it'll be hard.
Title: Re: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: feev on August 19, 2012, 08:19:55 PM
Try a bit with more text in the answers. Also, where do the normal passengers go? You can fake stuff, but it'll be hard.

I guess it could work in the setting, of the airport being temporally shut down.
Therefore spys and mercs could use the same ways and areas of normal passengers. Mercs would be allowed to go anywhere (including security areas), to fullfill their mission of protecting the airport.
Spys on the other hand have the mission to infiltrate the building and steal / hack classified information.

Obviously there has to be a bigger reason for the shutdown and protection of the airport.
E.g.: The government got a tip of a possible attack on the building...

Maybe a night setting would further improve realism.
Title: Re: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: frvge on August 19, 2012, 10:04:57 PM
Closing an entire terminal is not realistic. A whole airport? I doubt it. These structures have big contingity (spelling?) plans in case there's a fire, flood, attack, hostage situation or just maintenance. (hint: use a sector map: first a small part is shutdown for maintenance. Then Spies hack electricity so other things are evacuated -> doors open to other sectors). Just an example.
Title: Re: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: AgentX_003 on August 19, 2012, 10:05:34 PM
Some people on the forums discussed about a "Fort Knox" map some time ago. A government gold depot (IIRC) would make an interesting place for spy vs merc.

Time: near future

Story: Some time ago the non-government-company "AE" bought former gold storage "Fort Knox" from the government, because the U.S.A. had a new and more modern depot called "Fort X6" (comment: who gets the easter eggs?  ;) )
Now the government is in a financial crisis and they risk sending in [insert name of PS spies] to get their necessary funds for their campaign, however AE's information network helped them to find out about the attack shortly before it happens. In reaction to the imminent attack, AE sends out [insert name of PS mercs], one of the best PMCs in the world, to prevent the attack from being a success.



This would make the spies look kind of evil and would show a typical "fight over money".

you mean this one :D http://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/index.php?topic=2135.msg45631#msg45631 by me :D
Title: Re: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: feev on August 19, 2012, 11:08:27 PM
Quote
(hint: use a sector map: first a small part is shutdown for maintenance. Then Spies hack electricity so other things are evacuated -> doors open to other sectors). Just an example.
That's actually a great idea. I approve :)
Title: Re: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: Sunshine on August 20, 2012, 10:56:59 AM
I really like the idea of an airport! Could create a really awesome map...

Though one problem with an airport is - ALOT of big spaces..
Title: Re: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: tigaer on August 21, 2012, 07:40:42 PM
A nuke went off in the country (unspecified?), so everything is being evacuated, all airports are shut down due to the country being a war-zone. That would make for debris, luggage carts, buggies, and suitcases (for blocking conveyer belts realistically) which would act as cover for players. Would be a good setting, having locked keypad doors and what not. The enemy country have taken over the airport for some reason (which would again add mobile equipment stations for cover and objectives), and the spies are getting in to obtain intel. Yeah, yeah?
Title: Re: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: frvge on August 21, 2012, 10:01:12 PM
Total disasters are so cliche, but it would be possible.
Title: Re: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: tigaer on August 22, 2012, 01:51:28 AM
Total disasters are so cliche, but it would be possible.

They're cliche because they make for awesome environments ;)
Title: Re: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: Cronky on August 24, 2012, 11:51:55 PM
The only problem I have with your level tigaer is that the Spy objective seems so tacked on. Even though the Merc objective is pretty vague, it fits. They are just guarding something.

In my head I'm imagining a version of Story mode that would make use of vague objectives. Imagine if Story mode wasn't just 1 map, but a pack of maps that are determined by who wins or loses the round. Start with a Neutral map. The idea of this map would be that both sides are trying to figure out who each other are (or that they are fighting for more information). Depending on who wins or loses then goes to a map more personalized for the group that lost (plus maybe geared more towards the losing team). To make the idea simple, we'll say there is only 3 maps in each pack (1 neutral map, 1 Spy centric map and 1 Merc centric map).

Spies lose, Mercs move onto "Spy base" map. Geared more towards Spies because it's their base. So more air ducts, maybe doors that only open to spies (so Mercs have to hack) and generally more places to hide. Something to give the Spies a little bit of a handicap. If the Spies lose then the "Story" ends. Mercs killed off the enemy. If the Spies win then everyone gets transferred to one of many neutral maps.

If Mercs lose neutral map, then Spies move on to "Merc Base" map. Like the "Spy Base", it is more geared towards Mercs. Doorways opening to them, less air ducts, more environmental objects that need to be shut off to help spies (like how you have to hack the glass ceiling in Club House to gain easier access to Garden Room).

Maybe the Spy/Merc base maps are the only maps were Spy/Merc is able to switch weapons/gadgets mid-round. Since it is THEIR base.

Anyway, in the end, the Story mode always ends on 1 of 2 maps, but you have many "neutral" maps that consist of everything other map created by the community or devs.

If someone doesn't want to play Story mode, then there could just be the option to play Objective mode. Kind of the same as what Story mode is right now on CT. Pick a map, pick Objective(s) and play.
Title: Re: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: Pusianka on August 25, 2012, 02:53:52 PM
too much emphasise on story guys, seriously it all comes down to making nice enviroments. Story will never be convincing, because spies are known for their abilities to infiltrate silently places that are filled with security guards and not just two dumbass mercs. Think of original places to play in.

The idea of packs of maps had gone through my head long ago cronky and even wanted to introduce it in SCCT but it was too late for the game or at least "I" stopped making maps ;P. Besides it's a very time consuming thing. Fiddleing with the idea I thought of rearrangeing one map into 3 games. It's a bit like sector based map but well more developed.
Title: Re: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: tigaer on August 25, 2012, 04:48:05 PM
too much emphasise on story guys, seriously it all comes down to making nice enviroments. Story will never be convincing, because spies are known for their abilities to infiltrate silently places that are filled with security guards and not just two dumbass mercs. Think of original places to play in.

The idea of packs of maps had gone through my head long ago cronky and even wanted to introduce it in SCCT but it was too late for the game or at least "I" stopped making maps ;P. Besides it's a very time consuming thing. Fiddleing with the idea I thought of rearrangeing one map into 3 games. It's a bit like sector based map but well more developed.

Though true in a sense; a good environment tells a story without an in-depth explanation.
Title: Re: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: knooger on August 25, 2012, 06:22:54 PM
Rocamadour for PS! including better map balance, FX and sounds!

TBH I would like to see State Union, Clarity Soft Inc. (So underrated map) and some tweaked Shadow Moshes :D

PS. Maps should be as neutral as possible overall - but some objectives should be harder for spy/merc or so. Pure Merc maps in CT was never really liked by anybody eg. Warehouse, Deftech, Station...
Title: Re: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: tigaer on August 26, 2012, 04:28:09 AM
Rocamadour for PS! including better map balance, FX and sounds!

TBH I would like to see State Union, Clarity Soft Inc. (So underrated map) and some tweaked Shadow Moshes :D

PS. Maps should be as neutral as possible overall - but some objectives should be harder for spy/merc or so. Pure Merc maps in CT was never really liked by anybody eg. Warehouse, Deftech, Station...

I was actually thinking of a State Union remake awhile ago, but of course fix some of the balance issues and maybe make it creep more towards the original design and flow I planned for it. I couldn't ever find the Sketchup I had for the original design, sadly. I think it got lost on an old PC that broke and I could never find anybody who still had it, and sadly none of the images were saved either and the site I hosted them on way back then is shut down now. Sad day...
Title: Re: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: frvge on September 03, 2012, 12:10:37 AM
It's funny and a bit disappointing to see that I only saw 2 brainstormed ideas here. I know it's been a bit dead lately, but still... Come on people, start posting more good stuff. Else we'll pick from the airport and fort knox.
Title: Re: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: NeoSuperior on September 03, 2012, 01:23:33 AM
just to make sure: "Rocadamour" (sorry if misspelled) is a running remake project by pusianka (who created the original roca in SCCT also) that has nothing to do with this community map, right?


I am not very sure about the "airport" map, btw. If I think about it, it somehow resembles cinema (just in my imagination of course).
At the same time... Fort Knox would resemble bank though...

Damn! Can't we have a "PS-original" map for once? xD
Title: Re: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: frvge on September 03, 2012, 01:41:05 AM
Pusianka can best answer any questions about Rocamadour. I have no further info on that.
Title: Re: Community Map: a recap of PS' challenges and Stage 1 of the map
Post by: Cronky on September 03, 2012, 09:03:02 AM
Title: Spy Base

Description: Base for the Spies. Merc's have decided to bring the war right to the Spy's front door.

OR

Title: Merc Base

Description: Merc's have been less than good at doing their job against the Spies. They've been pushed back to their base.

That's all I got for them. I'm not sure what kind of backstory is there for either side, so I'm not sure what the levels would actually look like.

(Is this set in the future? Are the Spies Robots!? Are the Mercs ROBOTS!?!?!?! Is it a problem that I hope there are some kind of robots?)