Author Topic: Post Ideas for appearance of vision modes.  (Read 31452 times)

Offline goodkebab

  • Art Director
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2150
    • View Profile
Post Ideas for appearance of vision modes.
« on: September 07, 2007, 10:29:31 AM »


Make this a place to post your pictures of vision modes.

A couple of basic rules,  this is only visual style,  NOT a new vision mode(sound vision, xray vision, combat vision).  Visions will still have the basic functionality of CT visions -even if MT is debateable.  So if you dont like the current MT, post an ingame screenshot of a CT game, and color correct it in Photoshop to show the style of the vision mode.

Also, if you know of another game with cool vision modes....post those as well to see if we can come up with something new.

Post your idea and prepare to get flamed.


Offline Gui Brazil

  • One vodka, two vodka, three vodka, floor
  • Posts: 1455
  • Keep on rocking!
    • View Profile
Re: Post Ideas for appearance of vision modes.
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2007, 03:17:59 PM »
MT Fix.



If it'd work with a limited radius or w/e, it's another problem. I mean only the look of it.

Offline MR.Mic

  • Lead Visual Effects Artist
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1172
    • View Profile
Re: Post Ideas for appearance of vision modes.
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2007, 04:41:28 PM »
Download Link: http://rapidshare.com/files/54023589/MTConcept1.avi.html
Web-Player Link: http://stage6.divx.com/user/MRMIC/video/1611789/PS-MT-Concept-1

A mock up animation I made with max and some materials.

It's basically EMF, but sensitive to motion.
It has fog, and the surfaces are colored based on your viewing angle.

There is not supposed to be a grey box or any form of overt indicator.

You just become visible when you start moving.
The faster you move, the more lit up you are.
When perfectly still, there is a (very) small camo-like distortion.


The upside to this is that it's easy to navigate the map, but really hard to see the spies unless they are moving.

EDIT:
Here's my second concept:
After some talking with spekkio this morning, I made a second concept.

Download: http://rapidshare.com/files/54094748/conceptnewfinal.avi.html
Web-Player: http://stage6.divx.com/user/MRMIC/video/1612884/PC-MT-Concept-2B

A new mock up animation I made with max and some materials.

It's still basically EMF, but sensitive to motion.
It still has fog, and the surfaces are colored based on your viewing angle.

It is easier to see a spy when it's moving and a grey box and a sound comes up for running spies.
The detection is 360, and the fog represents the detection radius (grey box or otherwise) of MT.
It will detect exactly the same speeds as CT's mt. I just wanted to show the two different effects.


You become visible when you start moving.
The faster you move, the more visible up you are (and vice versa).
When perfectly still, you are completely transparent.
Camo will also have no effect on MT, if you move, you are seen (and vice versa).


As for smoke (smoke will appear to be black noise, just like the crouching spy) , the grey spy model will draw over any existing particles or geometry until it disappears, just like the old MT.


EDIT: Here's another version I made for the ungreyboxed spy with particle effects, like visualizing the air being pushed around:
http://stage6.divx.com/user/MRMIC/video/1612195/PS-MT-Concept-2
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 11:51:15 PM by MR.Mic »
Lead Visual Effects Artist - Advanced Materials, Particles, and Post-Process Effects
Website: http://studentpages.scad.edu/~ctripp20/index.htm]

Offline Gui Brazil

  • One vodka, two vodka, three vodka, floor
  • Posts: 1455
  • Keep on rocking!
    • View Profile
Re: Post Ideas for appearance of vision modes.
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2007, 04:56:42 PM »
I take back the MT fix...Mic's one ftw.

Offline Spekkio

  • Posts: 1738
    • View Profile
Re: Post Ideas for appearance of vision modes.
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2007, 05:49:58 PM »
Brazil's photo is an example of going overboard with MT nerfing. How the hell are you supposed to navigate the map to chase the spy who's running away?

I like MR.Mic's idea, but now you can't detect aggro spies behind you. I think that's important to have.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 05:52:53 PM by Spekkio »

Offline Bionic-Blob

  • Posts: 696
  • The Lazy Dood
    • View Profile
Re: Post Ideas for appearance of vision modes.
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2007, 05:51:21 PM »
i was thinking some sort of alien/predator motion tracking effect. can't remember which it is. but you only see stuff if it moves, so if you were standing still, everything would be black except for random physics props dangling about and the spies. but then if you go into a chase, the motion blur and stuff would make it difficult to see the spy. thus, ye wouldn't use it all the time.

Offline goodkebab

  • Art Director
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2150
    • View Profile
Re: Post Ideas for appearance of vision modes.
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2007, 05:52:49 PM »
Mic,  thats going in the direction i was thinking.

Apparently its really fast and easy to do a fake ambient occlusion render (no textures, just normal maps, transparency, and shadows) and it can work in real time.

Instead of making the Spy transparent,  perhaps make him the exact same color as the background which without textures,  would blend with him perfectly.

Fading to black also has a way of highlighting the foreground to much maybe....hmmm with work i am sure we can get the right look.

Spekkio,  we currently working on just the shader for the moment...angle of view and sensitivity are the coders job and will be tweakable.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 05:57:04 PM by goodkebab »

Offline Spekkio

  • Posts: 1738
    • View Profile
Re: Post Ideas for appearance of vision modes.
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2007, 05:54:04 PM »
EDIT: Yea, but there's no "gray box" or ping or anything like that to let you know someone is running around behind you in Mr.Mic's proposal.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 05:59:46 PM by Spekkio »

Offline MR.Mic

  • Lead Visual Effects Artist
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1172
    • View Profile
Re: Post Ideas for appearance of vision modes.
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2007, 05:59:10 PM »
If MT only works in FOV, there's no point to even having the vision mode.

You have a point, there.
Lead Visual Effects Artist - Advanced Materials, Particles, and Post-Process Effects
Website: http://studentpages.scad.edu/~ctripp20/index.htm]

Offline Spekkio

  • Posts: 1738
    • View Profile
Re: Post Ideas for appearance of vision modes.
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2007, 06:01:43 PM »
EDIT: Even though I'm not a fan of completely reworking the visions right away, Mr.Mic brings up a good point: MOTION tracking shouldn't be able to detect a stationary spy at all, whether he's in the shadows, light, or anywhere else. So his concept is a pretty good one: MT ignores lighting completely in favor of detecting motion. The map is still easily navigated, probably moreso in dark areas since it ignores light the way that EMF ignores light.

I would say to gradually fade the spy into existance via how fast he's moving up to a certain threshold. If the spy dives, rolls, or runs, then he gets a gray box. This is so that MT retains its function against aggro spies, but you can bypass the merc by sneaking by when he's not looking at you. You could even stalk a merc by crouching, but if that's too powerful the threshold could always be lowered to include fast crouch movement.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 06:17:05 PM by Spekkio »

Offline MR.Mic

  • Lead Visual Effects Artist
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1172
    • View Profile
Re: Post Ideas for appearance of vision modes.
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2007, 06:02:46 PM »

Apparently its really fast and easy to do a fake ambient occlusion render (no textures, just normal maps, transparency, and shadows) and it can work in real time.

It's even easier, low-tech, and faster (computationally and development-wise) to use a camera-space environment map + z-fog. I could make the shaders in a few minutes with just the UT2004 material editor. (even though we arent using that engine)
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 06:09:49 PM by MR.Mic »
Lead Visual Effects Artist - Advanced Materials, Particles, and Post-Process Effects
Website: http://studentpages.scad.edu/~ctripp20/index.htm]

Offline Overstatement

  • Posts: 1267
    • View Profile
Re: Post Ideas for appearance of vision modes.
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2007, 09:09:05 PM »
I don't like Mr.Mic's idea. It's a little uncreative and old for me. It's pretty much the equivalent of cloaking when stationary which has been done to death (but still very fun in Natural Selection  ;D).

I don't like the whole idea of stationary + nothing = invisible(ish). It has no thought for the spy other than to stop...and I've played that game before (lol @ second and third paragraphs).

Anyway, my idea...
And if the need be, to solve the nightvision problem, we could incorperate the distance of stuff from the merc into the shader. Blend stuff of like distances and contrast stuff of unlike distances. So a spy next to a wall will be blended together while a spy out in the corridor will contrast with the wall that's far away.

things I want to put out there is the change in MT where we use the distance of the surfaces from the player in the calcuations. So that surfaces that are close together appear blended (regardless of lighting) and surfaces that are far part are contrasted.

...Is it odd that I remember saying these things or that I still agree with them?

Offline Spekkio

  • Posts: 1738
    • View Profile
Re: Post Ideas for appearance of vision modes.
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2007, 09:24:43 PM »
Quote
I don't like the whole idea of stationary + nothing = invisible(ish). It has no thought for the spy other than to stop...and I've played that game before (lol @ second and third paragraphs).
That's what you have 2 other vision modes for.

Offline InvisibleMan999

  • Posts: 863
    • View Profile
Re: Post Ideas for appearance of vision modes.
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2007, 09:30:28 PM »
I like Mic's version of MT. The nice thing about Mic's change too is that it works pretty well regardless of resolution, so it's not something we have to really worry about being broken by super high res displays.

I don't really have a problem with MT seeing terrain well. It's the whole spy detection thing that really matters. Mic's change will mean that at the very least MT loses night vision capabilities and also loses 360 detection. That's pretty huge change wise.

Also if we wanted to make a spy more obvious at higher speeds we could introduce some other mechanics, perhaps a color shift. So a running spy appears as a bright purple or something that's easily discernible.

Perhaps I'm not in the minority with wanting significant changes to MT, as Mic's fix isn't anything close to MT as we know it.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 09:46:20 PM by InvisibleMan999 »

Offline Overstatement

  • Posts: 1267
    • View Profile
Re: Post Ideas for appearance of vision modes.
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2007, 09:41:23 PM »
Quote
I don't like the whole idea of stationary + nothing = invisible(ish). It has no thought for the spy other than to stop...and I've played that game before (lol @ second and third paragraphs).
That's what you have 2 other vision modes for.

I said it has no thought for the spy. As a spy, you would not worry at all if a merc was looking at you, even if he's right in front of you, if you do not move. With my idea, you would need to find paths that stick to the walls and quickly transverse gaps that leave you visible.

Besides, treating a spy as a special object is such a computery programy thing to do. He's the only object that disappears when it stops, it would make no sense that real-life MT would work that way. NOTE: There is a difference between "realistic" (which people hate as a point of argument) and "makes no sense".