Author Topic: balancing of sticky cams  (Read 31252 times)

Gawain

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balancing of sticky cams
« on: October 16, 2007, 11:48:01 PM »
imo sticky cams are the most overused and overpowered gadget the spies got (especially with sound loss/bugs so that you can't hear pulling out the gun or without eax superhearing that you can't hear it being placed).
how do you want to balance it out? maybe just by boosting other underused gadgets? brainstorming appreciated...
note that i don't think spies are op, i just think it's boring that almost all games are decided by this gadget.

Offline Farley4Fan

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Re: balancing of sticky cams
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2007, 01:13:12 AM »
Well the only thing that I could think of that would "balance" it by your terms is just separating the gadget into two gadgets.  It could be separated into a deployable camera, and a grenade that shoots out the same amount and stuff the old sticky cam did.  Difference is that it would take up two spots.  People would probably bring either the gas grenade or the deployable cam.

But I don't think that separating its functions like that is necessary.  You could boost camo - makes you invisible for longer.  You could make spy bullets perform more functions that don't make it obsolete to heartbeat ( maybe increase its radius and lifespan? )  You could make new gadgets, like the holo pod.  What about some sort of small backpack for spies?  Like a fanny pack ( not really lol ), maybe a utility belt that lets you hold a few extra grenades or gadgets?

Still, the sticky camera will always be used by most.  It is like the gas mask for mercs, you can't leave home w/o one.

Offline B1nArY_001

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Re: balancing of sticky cams
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2007, 01:23:38 AM »
1. This is not CT the sound loss issue is CT

2. Eax superhearing is not required and is a lame excuse for failing to catch a sound. I Play with a stereo headset and without eax, I never fail to hear a cam being placed, even a cam being placed in a room adjacent to me or sometimes almost the other side of the map

3. The gun is silent when the player holds down the draw weapon key thus you do not hear it.

4. Sticky Cams are not that overpowered. If you are constantly getting hit with them you need to learn when to expect them and be more vigilant. Be quicker turning on your mask, wear it at all times unless using another gadget. It is a player problem, not the gadget.

Offline Westfall

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Re: balancing of sticky cams
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2007, 01:45:17 AM »
The only thing shitty about sticky cams is how long the merc takes to get the hell up and not be baffled from the cams. You get up and can't just shoot, you are still kind of tazzed, which is lame imo.

Offline InvisibleMan999

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Re: balancing of sticky cams
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2007, 02:44:56 AM »
I don't really think it's possible to make the other gadgets as good as cams, mainly because cams produce a different function than everything else. They're the only gadget that can efficiently neutralize a merc guarding an objective.

If you want to make cams weaker, you could

-Make gas mask better.
-put a longer delay on the time it takes the cam to hit the ground and the time it takes before you can launch gas.

Otherwise just design maps such that full stealth can work. If you can avoid mercs, then you'd have no need to neutralize them. A lot of the problem is that a spy has to neutralize mercs sometimes so the cams are essential.


Offline Farley4Fan

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Re: balancing of sticky cams
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2007, 03:09:04 AM »
Example:  Warehouse - You NEED to bring cams on this map.  No matter what.  You NEED to neutralize mercs, best way to do that is with a sticky cam.

If you design maps in such a manner that you don't NEED to neutralize mercs before you can do anything, then you shouldn't have a problem and cams wouldn't be brought that much.  Cams aren't over powered, true they have a lot of uses, but they can be detected/destroyed/countered/avoided by mercs anyways.

Offline Westfall

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Re: balancing of sticky cams
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2007, 03:26:19 AM »
Papa, are you an x-box player or a PC player?

Again, I don't think the cams need a change. Rather there needs to be a change in the time it takes for a merc to get active. example: If i put some1 to sleep in greek room (Aquarius of course) then I can hack all of Greek by the time the merc is standing and can actually move/shoot again. A hack per cam. This neds to change to either longer obj. or shorter sleep time.

Offline LiVe.To.Di3

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Re: balancing of sticky cams
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2007, 03:47:45 AM »
imo sticky cams are the most overused and overpowered gadget the spies got (especially with sound loss/bugs so that you can't hear pulling out the gun or without eax superhearing that you can't hear it being placed).
how do you want to balance it out? maybe just by boosting other underused gadgets? brainstorming appreciated...
note that i don't think spies are op, i just think it's boring that almost all games are decided by this gadget.
ah cmon guys... you really think the cam is so powerful? holy crap.. and also not mostly all games are decided by the gadget.. i mean do u ever face good players? it helps a lot but the merc also has his weapons to help him.. and i can hear the cam being placed... with eax.. i just think its perfect the way it is and it would be pretty strange to make it like into 2 weapons.. i would just give the merc something more if u guys think its powerful... i just think its normal

Offline Farley4Fan

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Re: balancing of sticky cams
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2007, 03:49:58 AM »
It's more overused than overpowered correct

Offline kronf

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Re: balancing of sticky cams
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2007, 05:13:27 AM »
Its no more overpowered than mercs' fragmentation grenades.

Offline Nitro

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Re: balancing of sticky cams
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2007, 08:20:06 AM »
Example:  Warehouse - You NEED to bring cams on this map.  No matter what.  You NEED to neutralize mercs, best way to do that is with a sticky cam.

If you design maps in such a manner that you don't NEED to neutralize mercs before you can do anything, then you shouldn't have a problem and cams wouldn't be brought that much.  Cams aren't over powered, true they have a lot of uses, but they can be detected/destroyed/countered/avoided by mercs anyways.

Cams are one of the things that makes the game so incredible deep, giving it a "original" approach.

If you set higher delay on them you will ruin it for those who likes to use the cam as a agressive tool. (offcourse we all hate the really agressive slap cammers but its still a way to play the game)

I do not think the cams are overpowered at all, its the perfect gadget to counter dual backpack mercenaries spamming nades. 

This is comming from somone of actually choose to not take mask a whole lot of the games, and i have no bigger problem with it.. If you put yourself in a good posistion with proper deffense and somewhat use of your brain that is.

And yes as allways in sc games: Adjust to the opponents..
Makes me laugh when you see spies trying to aggro shotgunmercs with mask/uzi mercs with mask and then starting to whine if they fail due to the gun beeing to powerful. (which it is if you are trying to poke his eye out with the tazer, but keep range and he are useless)

Offline neth

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Re: balancing of sticky cams
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2007, 01:18:37 PM »
Example:  Warehouse - You NEED to bring cams on this map.  No matter what.  You NEED to neutralize mercs, best way to do that is with a sticky cam.

well i'd say that you need a good mate instead of the necessity to cam both mercs. You can try to aggro hack while mate is tazing/nading but thats not the point

IMO cams are balanced and I dont really see a reason why you want to nerf them. Im thinking about changing 2 things. When you get cammed and get up after, you cant move for a while and cant use your mask instantly - thats a real problem cause you can easily get cammed for the 2nd time.

Same thing is with sniping. After you get up you cant zoom for a while which is really frustrating especially when you look at spy whos hacking when you cant do anything.

To sum up. I think cams are balanced but i would shorten or completely remove the time when you cant do a thing after you get up.


edit: sry for repeating so many words but i slept only 5 hours this night

Offline Spekkio

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Re: balancing of sticky cams
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2007, 01:41:12 PM »
Cams are the only way for spies to mobilly neutralize a merc. That function is why they are taken so often. However, that doesn't make them imbalanced or overpowered. The reason they aren't is because you can dodge them or use mask to neutralize the effect.

Offline goodkebab

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Re: balancing of sticky cams
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2007, 01:45:46 PM »
cams are NOT going to be changed

Gawain

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Re: balancing of sticky cams
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2007, 02:03:20 PM »
in my experience, 90% of games the spies win are decided by sticky cams. i'd like to see more variety in gameplay/gadget choice, not only in map design. it must be quite possible to win the popular maps without sticky cams, otherwise it's more about reflexes/listening awareness/spamming smoke than about tactics.
a really little change could work out well, but i also think that the gameplay and gadget behaviour should be cloned first.