insta healing and insta trap removal discussion thread

[Gawain]

topic says most i guess.
one idea would be to have your mate look for the poison dart or a tracking device. another idea would be to implement healing needles as a gadget like in scda that allow you to slowly regain your or you partners health, but in order not to make it a hard counter against poison mines you should need tons of them in order to survive a poison dart.

so let's do some brainstorming here =)

[Spekkio]

I don't think healing should be in the game at all. Remove poison effect/traps with a cooldown limiting how often you can do it, but no heal. We have health boxes for a reason.

Along those lines, auto-regen should be removed entirely, too.

[Farley4Fan]

Why all the big change?  This would differ too much from the core game imo.  That was 1 reason to stay with your partner, why kill an aspect of cooperation gameplay?  I know it sounds cheap to auto heal someone but it's part of working together.  However, you could slow the healing process.  You can still heal your partner all the way, but it would take like 10 seconds to go from 0 to 100% health.  You shouldn't have to sacrifice a gadget slot for needles either.

Auto regen is definitely something I could live without.  The only way to heal YOURSELF should be a medkit or needles that you take along with you.  The needles could maybe auto heal your partner, as well as slowly heal yourself.

As for removing traps/darts, I think it's fine the way it is.  It's also one of those reasons to stay together.

[Spekkio]

Why all the big change?  This would differ too much from the core game imo.  That was 1 reason to stay with your partner, why kill an aspect of cooperation gameplay?

Because there are plenty of other advantages to sticking together that you don't need to act as an instant and infinite healthbox for your partner. It encourages carelessness.

[Westfall]

I don't think healing should be in the game at all. Remove poison effect/traps with a cooldown limiting how often you can do it, but no heal. We have health boxes for a reason.

Along those lines, auto-regen should be removed entirely, too.

If no healing by partners and only by health boxes, mines can't be placed near them. How do you stop that one? "Slow walk" You aren'tgoing to slow walk if you're poisoned.

I'm cool with your partner taking the health-shot from DA as filling a gadget slot.

[Farley4Fan]

Why all the big change?  This would differ too much from the core game imo.  That was 1 reason to stay with your partner, why kill an aspect of cooperation gameplay?

Because there are plenty of other advantages to sticking together that you don't need to act as an instant and infinite healthbox for your partner. It encourages carelessness.

Why not?  Someone gets shot so they say "well, see ya later man.  I have to go run around the map until I find the health pack so I can come back and help you."  That's stupid.  You should both work together to find a safe spot to heal eachother.  Encourages carelessness?  It encourages cooperation and sticking with your partner, nothing wrong with that.

[InvisibleMan999]

I'm cool with your partner taking the health-shot from DA as filling a gadget slot.

Yeah, why not just make heal capability a gagdet?

[Farley4Fan]

Medi belt!  Oh yea.  Basically a belt that gives you 5 or so medikits that heal you and your teammate all the way (all the way maybe?). Or just give the spy syringes like DA. ;D

Take out self regen and let your partner heal you 1/3 of the way w/ or w/o the syringes for every life they have.

[Daybreak]

You ever play against havoc and weezer when they go nuts on you. Their team work is so affective you are possible to run out of bullets before you take one down. They go agressive then all hell breaks lose. the moment you as a merc escape from the smoke and flash, they heal themselves, and renew the attack. The moment your reload they heal. It's almost like fighting a spy with infinite health.

I'd be happy with a compramise. Instead of needles taking up a slot, you each get two automaticly. They could heal you completly or stop poison, but not both. If you were poisoned you'd have to use two needles to keep full health.

As for health boxes, you'd be able to reload. But wouldn't be an instant heal. You'd have to get the needles then use them. Meaning you'd have to manage your time heading to a heath box. This could work for both teams.

Perhaps a poison dart for spies could be implemented that doesn't knock or kill the merc, but disorientates him. Dizziness and hearing things could be a result. The spy would have to have a low limit of darts. Just an idea.

The needles, then don't distract from well thought executed team work such of that of Havoc and weezer but does limit the length in which it occurs before needing to refuel.

[Test-Subject]

I think the only way to heal should be with needles which are limited and take a gadget spot.
Healing should have an action and the ammount of health you get depends on how long you kept the ''action'' on

[Spekkio]

Why not?  Someone gets shot so they say "well, see ya later man.  I have to go run around the map until I find the health pack so I can come back and help you."

Here's an idea: be more careful.

I don't think healing should be in the game at all. Remove poison effect/traps with a cooldown limiting how often you can do it, but no heal. We have health boxes for a reason.

Along those lines, auto-regen should be removed entirely, too.

If no healing by partners and only by health boxes, mines can't be placed near them. How do you stop that one? "Slow walk" You aren'tgoing to slow walk if you're poisoned.

Well, first of all I hope that PS fixes the fact that you can place mines inside geometry. Secondly, what's wrong with a mine near a healthpack? Just shoot it or chaff it or whatever. If the merc uses a poison/proxy combo, he's using 2/3 of his mines to get one kill...maybe. Better yet, be a little more careful and don't rely on getting shot up and running to heal to bail you out, or focus on sneaking in to remove traps like seefoo used to do for the first half of every game.

I'm cool with your partner taking the health-shot from DA as filling a gadget slot.

That is a solution, but I'd rather just have it done away with, period. Keep in mind that this also applies for the mercs....instead of them just insta-healing each other anytime it's convenient for them to gang up on the spy (or spies), they would have to go back to the healthbox and sacrifice coverage. Would definitely help out paired with better jump detection and on maps where the mercs take falling damage frequently.

You ever play against havoc and weezer when they go nuts on you. Their team work is so affective you are possible to run out of bullets before you take one down. They go agressive then all hell breaks lose. the moment you as a merc escape from the smoke and flash, they heal themselves, and renew the attack. The moment your reload they heal. It's almost like fighting a spy with infinite health.

Havoc and Weezer aren't the only ones who do this, and it doesn't necessarily have to involve going straight for necks. You're right though in that a well-coordinated team can survive a lot longer being careless due to infinite insta-healing.

As for health boxes, you'd be able to reload. But wouldn't be an instant heal. You'd have to get the needles then use them. Meaning you'd have to manage your time heading to a heath box. This could work for both teams.

I don't think this is necessary -- I have no problem with healthboxes being quick, especially when most of them are out in the open. It's just that people rarely actually have to go to healthboxes to begin with.

I'd be happy with a compramise. Instead of needles taking up a slot, you each get two automaticly. They could heal you completly or stop poison, but not both. If you were poisoned you'd have to use two needles to keep full health.

I'd be a fan of 1 trap removal or poison removal per life, but no heal. On the merc end, though, it's a little more complicated: mercs don't die as much and spy bullets are much more plentiful. Perhaps limit them to one removal every 2 min or so? But then there needs to be a way for the mercs to know if the time is up or not.

My whole reasoning for being a fan of removing healing is because the meta-game in most maps where the spies just run around to "kite" the mercs is pretty damn gay. It takes the stealth out of "stealth-action." You'll still be able to cover your partner just fine, and you'll still be able to get away from the mercs. Hell, a lot of spy maps have a healthpack near spawn which the mercs can't access. You just won't be able to run around with no care for being spotted because you have a get-out-of-jail free card. On the merc end, it's very rare where you'll be killed via a jump or other damage because it's very easy to get healed.

[Gawain]

this sounds like the best solution to me:
-no auto healing
-no mutual healing
-only 1 mutual spy trap removal / life

regarding mutual bullet removal: it's balanced if the ps map layout has no op central camping points where the mercs can easily meet

EDIT: had a conversation with spekkio.

[Spekkio]

It's not perfect for two reasons:

1. Healing yourself = gay
2. Refilling the healing ability = gay

It's not like healthboxes are these hidden, inaccessible things where refilling the health "needle" will be difficult. Healthboxes are all over the place, and rightfully so. Use them. I don't see why the spies deserve a get out of jail free card for being careless because his partner is around. The fact that you're together means that you should be able to take on a lone merc pretty easily without the need to heal each other. Hell, you could be far apart and then meet up in a "safety spot" like under the floor in Club. And don't say "but gmo the maps will be different." I'm pretty sure there are going to be vents in PS which the mercs can't enter. Oh, so now you gotta go to the healthpack to get a refill...that's a real challenge with a full health bar, isn't it?

As far as poisons/spytraps, learn to use thermal.

[Daybreak]

I'm leaning on spekkio's side now. Damn you!

Then again, when I played, I tend to rarely do these things. So it's not a big gameplay change for me and to that affect everyone. Because I wasn't that bad, and i never ever did these things. lol. So ya, I found it pretty gay.

[Farley4Fan]

I say you get 2 syringes per life, that's what someone else said, forgot who.  They don't take up a slot and they heal you all the way and take away poison.  Maybe if phosphorous nades are added it would undo those effects?  There's an idea.  So, you've got no auto self regeneration, health packs, and 2 syringes per life.  Which means your partner can sacrifice one of his syringes for you if he is nice.