insta healing and insta trap removal discussion thread

[Spekkio]

So my final thoughts on this is.
-remove team healing, except for poison.
-keep autoregen
-health packs do the same as always, heal and remove poison.

Daybreak, I know that you like to play stealthy most of the time, but the fact is that most players use auto-regen as one of the many tools that allows them to run and "kite" the mercs rather than be sneaky. If you get shot up by a merc, then you already screwed up. You should not be able to get 50-75% of your health back because you made it to one of the ten billion spots on every map where spies can sit around unimpeded by mercs. It may slow you down for 10-20 seconds, but it also gives you your health back to try again without making your way to a healthbox.

Team healing and auto-regen could be balanced -- hell, you could argue it's balanced now. You could even balance rocket launchers for spies if you wanted to. But that's not why I'm against it. I'm against it because I believe it is one of the many factors that pretty much take any incentive for being stealthy out of the game completely, and separates the difference between people "pubbing" and people with set partners even more than it needs to be. In summary, I don't like what it does to the game, whether you have 1, 2, or infinite amounts of it.

As far as the traps thing: On the merc end, they can't avoid getting spy bulleted. You WILL get tazed in a match, so they should have some way to remove the bullets. However, a careful spy should not be tripping any traps. The fact that a spy can purposefully run through 3 spy traps and meet his partner in a safety zone to remove them is just dumb. Most people want to keep trap removal in the game, but there has to be a way to limit it a bit more so that a spy can't waste all your spy traps 30 seconds. I could see the need for this if the game were like PT where you always had to deal with 10 spy traps on the map, but nowadays you usually deal with just 3.

[Daybreak]

You make good points. If auto gen is removed, i'll find a way around it. As for the traps ya, a spy shouldn't be able to remove the trap. If he runs through multiple traps, the time should just add together.

So if he trips one trap, and is on it for 35s and decide, fuck it i'm already trapped, and runs through a 2 more, the time he's trapped for would be up in the 1m40s range. Without having the ability to removing the spy trap. Serves him right, stupid carless spy.

[Farley4Fan]

While the spy probably shouldn't have got shot in the first place, I believe it's fair to give a spy 1/3 of his health back for escaping from a merc and finding a place where the merc can't find him.  With only 1/3 of his health back it's not going to allow him to make a gigantic frantic aggro run against the mercs.  It would maybe allow him to escape if he's found again, but that's it.  33% of your health isn't that much, especially compared to the amount CT gives you back.

[Spekkio]

I believe it's fair to give a spy 1/3 of his health back for escaping from a merc and finding a place where the merc can't find him.

Lol..."it's fair?"

Man, I wish all other mp games thought it "fair" to allow the player to regen 33% of their health by camping in a hiding spot.

/sarcasm

"Finding" a spot without the mercs? You don't exactly have to go out of your way to look for them.

[InvisibleMan999]

I don't feel like auto regen is that bad. It takes a while to work and you've got to be standing still. If people are willing to pay time for health, that's really not terrible. We may want to slow down its speed though, sio the time tradeoff is bigger.

[Test-Subject]

I think there is also a other aspect to Healing... there is also the Damage... I think damage from bullets should be increased

[Gawain]

the damage is just fine, the problem is hitting with that amount of lag.

[neth]

Yea, you can often see how good host's accuracy is.

[Spekkio]

Damage is fine...the merc weapons just need to be adjusted to be more equivelent, with the rifle serving as the baseline.

[BurningDeath]

dude, i talked about this topic with spekkio for like an hour, and you can be sure that we thought way deeper than you can imagine. of course we thought about healing needles and other stuff  ::)

poor guy ..  :-\

[Farley4Fan]

I believe it's fair to give a spy 1/3 of his health back for escaping from a merc and finding a place where the merc can't find him.

Lol..."it's fair?"

Man, I wish all other mp games thought it "fair" to allow the player to regen 33% of their health by camping in a hiding spot.

/sarcasm

"Finding" a spot without the mercs? You don't exactly have to go out of your way to look for them.

You kidding me?  Don't compare this game to other games, they are much different.  First of all, it's not always that easy to escape a merc that takes away most of your health, is it?  ESPECIALLY not a spot where you can sit there safely and where a merc can't nade/shoot you.  It's not smart for a spy to camp, so what's the problem with that?  It's not like he'll win the entire game by sitting in fear waiting for his health to recharge so that he has the slightest chance at making a run across the room.  Auto regen is like saying "Hey man, that was stupid.  You shouldn't have rushed the merc.  But since you were able to escape the deadly merc's clutches I'll give you a chunk of health out of pity." :D

It's not a big deal really.  It's really a way for lone spies to recouperate after being shot without having to run across the map to get to a well guarded health pack.  And even then, it doesn't give you a lot of health.

[Xris]

You make good points. If auto gen is removed, i'll find a way around it. As for the traps ya, a spy shouldn't be able to remove the trap. If he runs through multiple traps, the time should just add together.

So if he trips one trap, and is on it for 35s and decide, fuck it i'm already trapped, and runs through a 2 more, the time he's trapped for would be up in the 1m40s range. Without having the ability to removing the spy trap. Serves him right, stupid carless spy.

No stacking, each one has its own timer.  The last trap hit would last the longest.

As for needles, it would be ok if each spy had 2, had to be refilled at medkit or death. They heal over time.  1 needle can get rid of poision but wont heal you.  Like an antidote.  Mercs should not be able to self heal.  When a spy trap is on the wall, you should be able to see the option to remove spy trap from partner. That is just gay.

[Gawain]

omg. mutual poison healing is already pretty gay, but self-healing from poison is way more retarded. if you really wanna go for needles, take my idea, it's really the best for needles: 1 needle/spy that allow slowly healing (51hp) oneself  or the other spy, but in order to remove poison you need 2 needles so you can't do it on your own.

[Xris]

yea actually i dont like antidote lol. but say poisons rate was 10hp per sec, the needle would heal at 2.5hp per sec, so if u were at full hp, hit a poison and used needle u would be 1/4 hp or 1/2hp if u used both needles.

[neth]

Being able to remove poison without anyone's help is terrible idea.