disk type objective

[Gawain]

invisible, you don't see 2 points:
-on good maps there is more than one drop zone
-the spy with the disk can also stealth to an objective and drop the disc later (quite awesome tactic btw)

something that just came up in my mind: should camo also make the disc transparent?

[BurningDeath]

invisible, you don't see 2 points:
-on good maps there is more than one drop zone
-the spy with the disk can also stealth to an objective and drop the disc later (quite awesome tactic btw)

something that just came up in my mind: should camo also make the disc transparent?

Yes, awesome idea. Make camo hide the signal that the disk sends out and you allow a spy who brings it to pass critical points in fast-crouch. Nice one Rambo!

[Westfall]

invisible, you don't see 2 points:
-on good maps there is more than one drop zone
-the spy with the disk can also stealth to an objective and drop the disc later (quite awesome tactic btw)

something that just came up in my mind: should camo also make the disc transparent?

I disagree. The disk is by no way connected to the suit of the spy, therefore it should show itself as it does now. Just because the disk is touching the spy's suit doesn't mean it can go transparent. If a spy has camo on and he touches a wall, the wall doesn't go transparent. Also, its for a balancing purpose. The disk is visible as a giveaway of where you are with it if its not shown on the radar. This has saved me before because I've noticed the glow of the disk moving slowly. So, the disk is visible for the reason of giving away where you are if you really aren't careful. Remember its a stealthy bring back that acts like a burden. The disk should always stay visible.

[Gawain]

bd, it was't related to the disk showing up on radar, but to the disk showing up in normal vision just like westfall assumed. when i thought about disk and camo i just noticed that i had no idea (and still don't have) if camo makes the disk transparent.

[Westfall]

it doesn't

[Gawain]

haha then a disk in large distances looks like flying in a magic trick XD

[Farley4Fan]

Well of course  :D  Just make the slow mode button work for climbing too.  Problem solved.

o rly?
we had this discussion before and this solution is so obvious that you should stop to hijack this thread with this bs. kkthxbai

read my post above yours.

I can't believe I don't remember something so important like that...  :-X

Hijack how exactly?  I'm on topic, stfu.

[InvisibleMan999]

invisible, you don't see 2 points:
-on good maps there is more than one drop zone
-the spy with the disk can also stealth to an objective and drop the disc later (quite awesome tactic btw)

I see those points, but honestly, they just dont' really matter.

On maps with multiple drops, the drops are next to each other. Museum, Missile strike and Aqua are the three that come to mind here. So that it's pretty much a game of shocking the merc and running with the disc as opposed to stealthing anything.

As far as stealthing to an objective and dropping the disc later, that can work sometimes but it's rather impractical due to the fact that moving in slow crouch is so damn slow, so you waste a bunch of time. I mean, the disc is nice as a distraction sometimes for that reason. Something like, grab office disk and hit greek if both mercs go to cover the disc drop off. But that's really something your partner is better off doing as opposed to the guy with the disc.

And disc objectives really screw up a lot of maps. I can't think of one that actually improves because of a disc objective other than maybe steel squat, of course that could probably just be a bomb or a console to achieve the same effect. Lets look at the disc objectives in the game.

Aqua: Basically just helps the merc defend fewer places. You can basically ignore the office almost entirely and just defend the drops.

Museum: Camp cafe anyone? The PT objective set up was so much better.

Deftech: Disc objective is just a blind run. No stealth added at all.

Missile Strike: Disc stage is the most annoying thing ever. Pretty much no stealth as it's just two mercs camping the disc drop. Hope you're good with cams, because the chance of you sneaking by the mines and the mercs is basically zero unless the other team sucks.

Orphanage: Again, it's just a grab disc and run scenario. You actually do have to defend the initial disc acquisition points because there are just too many ways out of the orphanage, but it's not really about stealth. It's just about shock and run.

Polar Base: Don't get me started on this one. If the discs were consoles the map would be so much better.

Really, I can't find a good reason to even keep disc objectives in the game. It's possible we could modify them some, but the current incarnations are just pure aggro machines. Over 90% of the time, you drop a disc with a dual rush by you and your partner, your partner shocking and removing mines and you actually dropping the disc. That's just the way things are. It's not a stealth objective at all.

Yeah, there's that 1 in 50 time that someone stealthed a disc, but how often does it really happen? In a real game, how often do you really get away with stealthing a disc on museum or aqua or missile strike?

Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I wish that disc objectives would just die.

[Gawain]

frankly, all maps with disk objectives suck in some way or another, but it's really not because of the disk objective(s).

orph: wrong door timing, vents/ceiling next to objectives
aqua: tech=central camping spot for mercs
museum: fucked up running-around-in-circles map
missile: ability to defuse bombs by shooting through the metal grill, too small disk room
steel: aggro is op, plays more like a fun map than a real map, getting disk is basically the same route over and over again
polar: it's all about knocking out or killing one merc, and it's also a sniper and camnet map. disk is fun with camo though.
cinema: good disk implementation, but once you have the disk dropped you can't be stopped from winning; without the disk camping in front or back is too easy.

it's not a bad thing that once you have the disk stealth becomes harder as it makes taking the disk a tactical choice and it also enables you to make pretty much pressure on the mercs' defence. a disk obj. just brings more dynamic into the gameplay.

you're also wrong about that going stealth with the disk is inefficient. it may be slow, but consider how much time you use to get a laptop obj in a usual game: 2-4min. once you are at the disk drop-off, you press one button and you get an obj. in no time.

here's an example: museum, you got both bomb objectives, you have the disk and are in the ceiling. at this point it's quite common that one mercs goes to the disk dropoff zone on the outside and the other merc stays in cafe. now let your mate hack cafe inside and stealth to the disk dropoff in cafe or wait for the merc on the outside to go inside. the only problem about this is that the lack of a slow climb move gives away your position once you go down so you better do it fast XD

[Farley4Fan]

All objectives give away your position.  Why should the disk one be any different?  It needs a few minor tweaks, but a further boost to camo is not needed imo.

[Kurbutti]

You guys are completely forgetting that stealth and care could be required to get to the disc, but that's ultimately up to the mapmakers so I don't know where your argument about CT maps is going to. Moreover, as agreed upon like million times, stealthy disc extraction will make sneaking out with the disc a sound tactic.

[Farley4Fan]

Does not matter because the mercs know a few things:

A) That the disc was taken.
B) Where the disc must be dropped.

Imo, disc objectives should be used a few different ways, and not for stealthy returns.  The other way is using your tracked self as a distraction so your teammate can get to terminals/other objectives and complete them.  The other way is using your teammate and rushing 1 drop point together to drop the disc.  Something that lights up your position an has lights on it is something that cannot/should not be used for stealth.  It's just not how it works.  Should we make it so that's possible?  Maybe, maybe not.  That's something to discuss.  But think about it stealthy players, use stealth to get to all objectives, but once you get to them your position will/should be given away when you use them.  Why should disc be different?  The only stealth boost for any objective should be the bombing objectives - 5 second timer delay is a good one...

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Searchlights following the spy ::)

[Kurbutti]

Does not matter because the mercs know a few things:

A) That the disc was taken.
B) Where the disc must be dropped.

Imo, disc objectives should be used a few different ways, and not for stealthy returns.  The other way is using your tracked self as a distraction so your teammate can get to terminals/other objectives and complete them.  The other way is using your teammate and rushing 1 drop point together to drop the disc.  Something that lights up your position an has lights on it is something that cannot/should not be used for stealth.

That's one way to go. Tell me, why should they restrict the ways one can choose to play the game? You're suggesting that whenever a disc is taken, the game pace turns very aggressive and direct. I felt the SvM''s original concept was to be a combination of both agressive and stealthy tactics. The use of both elements is almost a must in CT at the moment, so I really don't understand your need to drop the stealth out from the equation...And furthermore, taking the disc causes always a slight reaction to the mercenaries - as long as the disc pays any tactical relevance. Given the mercs feel the safety of the disc vital for them, they will have to adjust their tactics to counter the defeat. Breaking a pattern such as patrol route always puts the merc at risk, thus giving spies more room to manouver. Plus, two minutes of silence after the disc has been taken can be really stressing, if the disc pays a vital role.

It's just not how it works.  Should we make it so that's possible?  Maybe, maybe not.  That's something to discuss.  But think about it stealthy players, use stealth to get to all objectives, but once you get to them your position will/should be given away when you use them.  Why should disc be different?  The only stealth boost for any objective should be the bombing objectives - 5 second timer delay is a good one...

I agree with you here, the concept shouldn't change from what it is now in CT. But I think there should always be a possibility to complete an objective without any direct confrontation.

[Farley4Fan]

Well if you agree with me in the second part then to some extent you must agree with me on the first part. 

The reason we should restrict stealthy disc drops (just a bit) is stated in your own post.  It would be really, really, really, stressing for mercs even if there are only a few drops.  You do realize I support slow drops right?  I would like some possibility for stealth, but it should always give away your position like other objectives do.  Even if the slow drop is implemented, a glowing disc on the side of your leg that tells the mercs where you are if you move too fast and that tells the mercs when you pick it up and tells mercs where you are going to go to drop it off really doesn't sound like something that could be easily used with stealthy tactics.