disk type objective

[Hyrage]

Gameplay > Realism, Hyrage.  I don't care if it's unplausible if anyone could slowly climb like that, it helps balance and improves gameplay, so that takes priority here.

My point was, climbing doesn't have to deal between slow or fast. It's already used at a medium speed because it makes the difference between the merc and the spy. The spy must travel fast enough on the Y axis to difference himself more than running faster VS the MERC.

Plus, it's a game and we aren't searching realism, but we are searching for a logical sense anyway. It would be pointless to add slow climbing and fast climbing. You can slow down on a zip line not to avoid noise but because it goes really fast. Climbing is already hard to achieve physically and I'm not sure that you will make a lot of noise while doing that, it's not running or landing... it's just climbing. The effort it takes to climb, you aren't making noises, it's all about placing your feeth and your hands at the right places and support your weight.

[Gawain]

hyrage, the ability of slow-climbing is only needed against mt and when carrying the disk, not because of noises and other stuff.

[Hyrage]

hyrage, the ability of slow-climbing is only needed against mt and when carrying the disk, not because of noises and other stuff.

Yeah this would totally makes sense for MT, unfortunately there is no sensitivity on the keyboard arrows  8) compared to a 360 Controller thumbsticks to accurately play with the movement speed.

But it makes sense that passing over a fence is detected by the MT.

[Gawain]

just go into slow-mode by pressing the middle mouse button.

[InvisibleMan999]

it's not a bad thing that completing the disk objective forces you to use some aggro. yet with better map design and a slow-climb move i think the stealth aspect becomes way stronger. making the merc cover the disk spawn or drop off to see if the disk was removed is totally redundant (when the disk becomes actually a valid objective because the drop offs aren't that bad like in cafe) due to the fact that the merc is already punished when the spy takes the disk the stealth way: he isn't close enough to the spy to stop her from taking the disk and the spy can go unnoticed in any direction.

The thing is that mercs generally don't care if you pick up the disk. I mean getting to the disk pick-up usually takes minimal stealth because mercs don't bother patrolling them anyway in most maps unless the disk is the only objective, like orphanage or missile strike. The only way to really get them to patrol the pick ups is if the disk can be taken covertly. Otherwise, picking up a disk is just equivalent to giving away your position without actually accomplishing any objectives.

As far as stealthy disk tactics... I mean honestly, point to one map where the disk is done right and you can actually stealth it with any regularity against competent mercs. Thus far, I have yet to actually see a single map where this is true. Disks are pretty much pure aggro. There may be limited stealth in getting to the disk objective on some maps where the disk is the only objective, like orphanage. But once you got the disk, it's just a mad dash and to hell with stealth. Seriously, I don't care how you design the maps, it's always going to be that way.

If you make it so that you don't immediately know a disk was taken, then you make the stealth aspect a lot more possible and I think disk objectives become a bit more fun. Obviously it'd require a bit of map rebalancing, but since PS is all new maps, that's not a problem.

Another idea I thought of is that you should be able to do a radar reveal on the disk when standing at the disk pickup point, so that both mercs can see it. So if go to patrol the pick up point, you could send out a radar ping that always shows where the disk is (even if the spy is standing still). But because this requires that you stand at the pick up point, it means that one merc is out of commission.

[Gawain]

Another idea I thought of is that you should be able to do a radar reveal on the disk when standing at the disk pickup point, so that both mercs can see it. So if go to patrol the pick up point, you could send out a radar ping that always shows where the disk is (even if the spy is standing still). But because this requires that you stand at the pick up point, it means that one merc is out of commission.

this could cripple a stealth approach to the disk even more and wouldn't be used much in a way it would improve the gameplay. BUT you inspired me for one quite awesome idea:
-when the disk is taken, the merc only get a "security breach" message
-as long as the disk is in the server it appears on the merc's radar

[Farley4Fan]

Interesting, needs some discussion though...

[InvisibleMan999]

Another idea I thought of is that you should be able to do a radar reveal on the disk when standing at the disk pickup point, so that both mercs can see it. So if go to patrol the pick up point, you could send out a radar ping that always shows where the disk is (even if the spy is standing still). But because this requires that you stand at the pick up point, it means that one merc is out of commission.

this could cripple a stealth approach to the disk even more and wouldn't be used much in a way it would improve the gameplay. BUT you inspired me for one quite awesome idea:
-when the disk is taken, the merc only get a "security breach" message
-as long as the disk is in the server it appears on the merc's radar

The security failure message could be a pretty good compromise as opposed to no message at all, but it still forces the merc to do some guessing to figure out what happened. Like "Did he grab the disc or did he just shoot out a laser or motion sensor."

The blip in the server will take some time to get used to, and I'm not sure if it's a good idea to clutter up the radar with it. I'm thinking it might be easier just to display the "Disk has been stolen" message to all mercs when a merc gets within a certain distance of the disk pick-up. It'd achieve about the same result without cluttering up the radar screen.

[Gawain]

that's right.

[Farley4Fan]

I like Invisible's idea.  Instead there should be lights around the pickup point that flash red when a disc has been stolen.  That way they get a visual cue and they would have to investigate to see it.

[I <3 U]

I like Invisible's idea.  Instead there should be lights around the pickup point that flash red when a disc has been stolen.  That way they get a visual cue and they would have to investigate to see it.

It's not christmas yet papa :P. I like Rambo's idea about the security failure, but i see what papa and invisible mean. I kinda like the idea of guessing though. How about when the disk is TAKEN the outside of the radar (usually orange in ct) flashes red, and a little thumping noise like the one when u stop a spy hacking in ct . It would mean no clutter on the R-DIZZLE!

[Farley4Fan]

Well it should still give the security message like Rambo's idea, but there should also be a visual cue around the pickup point - Flashing lights that are only noticeable maybe from 20 feet away from it.  It's a mix of Invisible's and Rambo's ideas.

[InvisibleMan999]

Well it should still give the security message like Rambo's idea, but there should also be a visual cue around the pickup point - Flashing lights that are only noticeable maybe from 20 feet away from it.  It's a mix of Invisible's and Rambo's ideas.

The problem with lights is that it puts a lot of work in the hands of the map designer. I'd prefer to make it a game feature. That way if we find out it sucks, we can just change it. The nice thing about having a fixed distance for detection is that people can tell how far they are from the objective by the enhanced reality box, and thus can tell if they're close enough, it's also something we can fine tune. So we can try 10 meters, or 5 or 15 or whatever depending on how playtesting goes, and it just involves changing a number.

If it's built into the map, then it's not going to be easy to change. I suppose we could have the disk server give off a pulsating glow or something and that'd be doable. But I'm not sure if it's needed right now. Besides I sort of like the idea of getting to a certain point and both mercs getting a message that tells them the disk has been stolen.

[Farley4Fan]

It would take no map designer's time because the maps are always visible.  BUT, they are only visible from 20 or so feet away.  Meaning you have to be within 20 foot radius of the light to actually see it.  So that wouldn't put and problems for map designers because they don't have to block the view of it for every angle or anything like that.

[Gawain]

i still think that we'd rather optimize the map design than making the disk objective less coherent with the other objectives. it's really not that bad that the disk objective promotes rather aggro then stealth, afterall it's stealth-ACTION-multiplayer.