Ammo for Spies?

[Valserp]

ok im asking this for Nitro, he realy wants the Uzi in this game. Because he sucks with the sniper rifle. Can you pls put it in, or else he is gonna whine all the time, and when he starts whining...sigh...

PT didn't need uzi because the rifle was fking insane.

[Vega]

You know, we could use limited ammo for spies but allow spies to "recharge" their energy/battery supply in-game an unlimited number of times.  When the spy recharges his battery, he would be slow and very obvious (bright light or loud sound).  This is just like the Predator's energy sift in Aliens vs. Predator 2. 

[goodkebab]

???

so like just how it is now....but whenever spy uses his tazer  he cant run/hide....sorry dont like that thought.

Spies have around 6shots before they have to do a full recharge.

Although I am thinking of making the suggestion for version 2.0  to add the wifi hack of DA.  How it works is you can have the default tazer,  or choose a mod that removes tazing capability in favor of wireless and silent hacking.  It would still have the launcher for other gadgets, you can shoot lights and security and hack mercs....you just couldnt shock a merc with it.

That would be fun for stealth spies, suicide for aggro spies....and probably wouldnt work with current CT maps

[VaNilla]

Guys, who whine about the shotty. What your forgetting is we can change the range and firerate cant we?

[Vega]

???

so like just how it is now....but whenever spy uses his tazer  he cant run/hide....sorry dont like that thought.

Spies have around 6shots before they have to do a full recharge.

Although I am thinking of making the suggestion for version 2.0  to add the wifi hack of DA.  How it works is you can have the default tazer,  or choose a mod that removes tazing capability in favor of wireless and silent hacking.  It would still have the launcher for other gadgets, you can shoot lights and security and hack mercs....you just couldnt shock a merc with it.

That would be fun for stealth spies, suicide for aggro spies....and probably wouldnt work with current CT maps

Well I meant after a certain amount of shots you would have to do a recharge.  It would be just like it is now, when you shoot a lot of shots your energy is depleted and it recharges automatically.  But i'm saying this new charging would be in addition to the regular charging.  Say after 24-30 shots, your batteries are completely drained and can't auto-charge like they normally do.  Now, you must go somewhere safe and do this new charging ability (at the click of a button) and you'll have another 24-30 shots of auto-charge. 

Complicated sounding, I know, but I don't know how to explain it well.

I like the idea of the wifi hacking as an option, more variety and definitely cool!

[FlamingGimp]

I got to thinking, that aggro behavior would be greatly reduced if the shots by the spies were actually limited. So essentially giving spies shocker ammo.

The first reason that comes to mind is: Lag.  This would give the host and those living close to them a huge advantage.  I think we all know what it's like to try and taze a strafing merc on a high ping server.  You could mention trying to adjust the amount of shots based up ping or something but you're just adding too many variables.

Now, you must go somewhere safe and do this new charging ability (at the click of a button) and you'll have another 24-30 shots of auto-charge.

I also totally disagree with that idea because then you're forcing the spies to play a certain way.  I haven't checked enough of these threads to pick up on how much you guys are trying to change/nerf/alter the gameplay but something such as SS changes seem pretty drastic.  Not to mention that will also be a big pain in the ass for people with higher pings.

When the feature set for spies in DA was originally released people complained that it was removing a spy's ability to aggro, and I think that you're trying to accomplish the same thing here (albeit to a lesser degree).  I'm going to disagree with any fundamental nerfing of a certain gameplay tactic.

I realize that people had a hard time with aggro, some thought it was cheap, but it was part of what comprised CT's character as a game.  If you're going to drop the "shotgun isn't cheap, you just have to learn to adjust" line, I say the same thing about aggro.  The aggro abilities for spies were fine the way they were.  Purely aggro spies didn't stand much of a chance against skilled mercs that were able to adjust to that play style.

Which makes me wonder if some people want 'balance' for the game, or if they're just trying to make it easier to play.  Being a "hardcore" player in the CT community, I'm attached to the things that made CT what it was, made I'm alone on this, but I'm going to have a hard time agreeing with most fundamental changes to parts/all of the gameplay, especially those that simplify any aspect of the game.

[goodkebab]

first priority is cloning...i really dont see how we can even think of making a radical change to the tazer.

[psyichic]

Removal of triple nading MAYBE although I dont personally support it but what I suggest is the implication of new weapons for the spy as a way to give stealth a more viable option.

I came up with an OCP gun type of idea back in CT but over time I thought about changing it a little bit. And add the DA idea of hacking aswell.

I like the direction that DA went with the hacking type of gameplay but I disliked the controls and the effect it had. It was way too simplified. It had some stupid auto lock-on effect, worked over a very limited distance and it even alerted the merc to the fact he was being hacked! That really annoyed me. Hacking a merc took a while and you could loose your lock too easily and

I want to suggest a combination of sticky shocker and hacking device. You must aim with a laser first of all. And what happens is when you bring this laser across a merc it begins to "hack" him and as you hold the laser on the merc you begin to hack him further and further and the closer you are the faster you hack him BUT there is no limit to the distance you can hack him from it is just that at a certain range it becomes very slow to hack him.

If the laser leaves the target for a while the hacking progress decreases at maybe a rate of half the speed the hack was going at or some other variable that would be determined through testing. THat way if you accidentaly leave your target for a split second you wont loose all your progress but if you hack him part of the way and then completely leave the hacking progress will dissapear. Once a spy has hacked a merc he remains in the state for maybe 1:30 during this time from the point when the merc has been hacked to when it wears of the spy is allowed to choose ONE option that stays on the merc through out his hacked period.

The spy can either choose to sabotage his detection devices so he is unable to detect spies with any devices. None of the devices will stop working per se but they just wont give him readings; if a spy runs behind him the SD will not go off, if he sees him with MT the MT wont pick him up and the like.

The spy can also choose to directly and overtly sabotage the merc's systems which results in static across the screen, inoperable SD, visions, and all the basic effects of a chaff/headshot albiet he will be able to reload. Perhaps the timer for this should be reduced to 45 secs but w/e.

Last option is to tap directly into the merc's view where he can see what the merc sees or something close to it kinda like the GRAW teammates HUD system where the spy can see what the merc is seeing so he can judge if his teammate is found out, looking away, or is about to pop him in the head.

Another either option or effect of hacking could be marking the merc on radar. Maybe this would be a seperate option after you hack the merc or maybe it would just be that whenever a merc is hacked he is automatically "spy bulleted" or maybe it only works with one option or another.




Another use for the weapon is silent trap disabling. Disable a trap and it silently goes offline not resulting in a SD ping.

Also for a merc's defense against hacking he could have the ability to "reboot" his system which would be the same as a normal headshot where he looses his HUD entirely for 20 secs or so and he must reboot it. That way a merc may be forced to double guess himself into wondering if he is hacked or not and risking disabling himself allowing spies to ambush him. Or maybe if that is too powerful you would need to go meet up with a team mate to be able to reboot your system or maybe it could just be automatically removed like a spy bullet.


I know it is reminiscent of goodkebab's idea but my personal thought on aggro vs. stealth is not to dissuade aggro but to encourage stealth. It just seems alot of people are approaching it as in issue of either powering up on side or merfing the other while I feel it should be just giving stealth a more viable option in it's situations.

[frvge]

Really nice post with some good ideas.

[goodkebab]

I personally find the autoAim on the hacking device just fine.  There is a reason it doesnt have a laser....because laser will give the position away.  Heck, even the sound of drawing your gun in stealth mode will give your position away. I am all up for new gadgets that allow for stealthier spies  :)

Range and cone of autoaim can be tweaked.  My prediction is people will prefer tazer on most maps anyways.

Also the easiest and most painless way to curb triple nadding is to change the timer to be the same as it takes to shoot 2 of the same nades(why can you shoot 3 different quickly but not 2 of the same?).  It is subtle, but then tripple nadding comes at the price of a merc no longer being tazed when you shoot the third nad.  Because of that....spies in close quarters with a merc will only have time for 1 nad and then escape to avoid the temporary invulnerability of the merc.

[USAHOLIO]

i like GoodKebab's idea about triple nading. It makes perfect sense and wont be too limiting of aggro cause spies can work together to shoot the three nades.

[psyichic]

I can understand the changing of the game so that the nades use a universal timer when you shoot them since that is a design oversight at first obviously so I would be open to trying that.

Also I just dont think that the auto lock-on/aim is a good idea. The process of hacking should be as interactive as possible to both promote skills and allow for more useability.

There are too many times in DA I found that it was just annoying how my spy LOCKED onto the damn merc when I wanted to try and look to a different merc.

Another Idea I forgot to mention in the last post was that I wanted to make it so that if you aimed at the merc's head using twitch skills the speed of your hacking would become doubled. On another note the laser I can also understand as being a problem since the merc could obviously get a little jumpy when a laser seems to follow him and he would be slightly nervous. An idea I had was perhaps the laser should only be visible in Night vision. That way a spy could use Night vision and be able to aim properly while still not alerting the merc to the fact that he is being hacked.

Also im guessing that while you are right that spys may prefer sticky shockers but if a hacking device is used properly then it could be many more times effective then a sticky shocker. A merc could be left unable to do anything for 45 secs or he could be lulled into a false sense of security long enough to allow a spy to slip right by undetected.

[goodkebab]

why not give the hacking device an aim reticle (small one) and giving an icon when it locks.

The only time i experienced frustration with the autoaim is when a light is next to an objective.  If we tighten that up to just with in a small square around the aim reticle it.  I remember back when heart beat sensor was scoffed at...now i see the majority of advanced players using it.  Some gadgets will only reveal their potential with experience.

I like the idea of it behaving like chaff without all the sparkles ...imagine disabling mines

[Lurch]

I like the infrared laser idea that psyichic posted, though you should be able to hack the merc with normal/thermal vision on, if you're good at aiming your gun without laser guidance.

However, before going too far with these ideas, I'd like to point out how CT managed to keep all the 8 spygadgets simple & balanced (exept sticky cam, which in my opinion rule all) so that you'll always regret not taking snare or camo or bullet and so on. While you're "adding" these neat lil' things, try not to make one gadget outshine or totally replace the other.

[USAHOLIO]

Lurxh makes a good point. I played CT on the XBox (no flaming please) and as i played (even deathmatch) theres always those situations where i regreted not bringing camo or snares or bullets, so there shouldnt be something that would make me not regret anymore cause that gets boring.