Ammo for Spies?

[goodkebab]

granted...i think we are just trying to come up with a justifiable balance for bringing the hacking device into the limelight.

The other solution to the hack device is to make it an attachment to the tazer....kinda like mercs choosing shotty or rifle.  That way, for production purposes it doesnt create more work (very important for us). -both in animation, modelling...etc etc.

If we do that...we are free to use the laser from the tazer.  Actually...perhaps that is best both in a production sense, and simplicity.

[Daybreak]

I like the sound of this hacking device. However, I'm not liking the lock on buisness.
Why does it need to lock onto the target? The new hacking device could be like the Merc Laser.
The merc laser if maintained steady on a spy gives shows him up on radar and able to be mic hacked.
I'm sure applying this type of weapon to a spy to disable mercs and other things silently is possible. Not having it lock-on means it requires skill to use effectively, much like the laser or the HB or almost all other items.

I think combining it as a weapon and it taking up a slot would be the best scenario. That way, you could be completely stealthy. or a No noise spy. You take the hacking device, you lose your ability to slow down a merc with the shocker and you lose your ability to shoot out mines, but still able to disable them from afar. Litterally you become a stealth only spy. Which means that your teamate, will be needed to protect you when you need to.

So what happens when you're teamate is dead? Better have equiped smoke flash and cams for that case. Or maybe you went too stealthy and have camo and HB and smoke. That way, since you chose the hacking device you wished you had the ability to stun a merc.

Increasing Stealth should be just that. having the hacking device included or combined with the SS will make it too powerful of a device. You take the remote hacking, you lose a device.

EDIT
LOL I just checked some previous posts and kebab mentioned something similar, except without the loss of a device.

[psyichic]

Wait......that was my idea  >:(   ;D


Anyways the auto-aim I must say I agree with Daybreak on. Auto-aim was a useless feature that can become a hassel and it takes all the skill out of using the device.

My idea as posted before was that we turn it into a laser and that depending upon the distance from a merc the hacking speed increases aslong as the laser is on the merc. If you can hold the laser over the merc's head it doubles your hacking speed. If the laser leaves the merc his hacking progress will gradually decrease thus a spy can accidentally loose the merc but then return to his hack a second or two later.

Doing that will atleast keep the skill factor in for the gun and you can make hacking more effective then just this simple little system malfunction that merc's experience and balance more powerful effects with a skill needed to hack the mercs.


What I don't get goodkebab is why you really want the auto-aim back. No offense but could you atleast explain why you feel the auto-aim should be there? What is wrong with a skill based aiming system?

[frvge]

Skill based should be easier to program. Saves a lock-on function :D

[Spekkio]

Am I the only one who doesn't think aggro is necessarily a bad thing?

EDIT: Just read Gimp's post, and I agree with him 100%. Just because YOU don't like aggro, or like playing aggro spies, doesn't mean that everyone else has to go along with it, too.

Also, the ammo will be hell on lag. I really like the rechargable 6-shot system we have now, and can't see how that can be improved. The shocker auto-aim is one of the few automatic things we SHOULD have because of the free-flowing camera angle. It's necessary and is not useless by any means.

I do think that the rifle could use 30 shots instead of 25, and the uzi does need something that stops people from whining about lag so much. If it can't be fixed, remove it entirely and revert the rifle to PT behavior and have the shotgun as a CQB specialist weapon. You have to admit the uzi is a little strong because most maps bring the spies and mercs in the optimal range for the uzi.

I also think there needs to be a happy medium between the fortresses of PT, and the lack of passive security in many maps in CT. Being able to sneak is good, but on some maps it's just way too open which results in the spies just running around with no penalty at all rather than actually sneaking from place to place. I have in mind specifically Museum. In PT there was a motion sensor at every entrance in the ceiling, then one at every vent, plus random lasers, plus cameras at the doorways. That's way too much. However, in CT there is only the two lasers in front of the cafe objectives and the disk. That's way too little.

I think Factory is done very nicely with the passive security. Orphanage is too, mostly. Something needs to be done to prevent the spies from rushing the objectives besides two exceptional snipers shooting at the spies up front.

You should also find a way to make lasers/alarms lock bomb objectives.

There are other minor fixes that can be done as well, but overall I think Gimp is right -- don't mess too much with a winning formula.

[USAHOLIO]

no your not spekkio i love to play aggro and do on most levls, but some people think its unbalanced. I personally enjoy playing aggro spies as merc cause it gives me a chance to use my tazer xD.

[Spekkio]

I don't really play aggro, neither does Gimp. I take triple nades on like 3 out of the 11 maps. Still, that doesn't mean that people shouldn't be able to play that way if they choose. Also realize that not allowing a spy to throw 2 quick grenades will upset the balance of the game when a spy is protecting his hacking teammate.

[Raz0rx]

I didn't read past page 2, but i have a small suggestion for more unique Merc weapons.

What do you think about attachments, like Scope, Nade Launcher, High-Rof Mod, Bigger Clip, Maybe something like a top-gun attachment that allows shotgun ammo, etc.
Same gun model, but the attachments that let the player create their own unique weapon to suit their play style more?

I don't know how well this would work but i'm just throwing ideas out there.
Been playing a bit of GRAW lately, and i like the whole weapon attachment system.

Feel free to criticize.  ;)
Also hey, the smilies on this forum are cool.  :P

[goodkebab]

we wont be able to change functionality in the first release....but superficially....we can make it look like we have 1 gun with three different attachments ....ie scope, shorter stock and larger clip (uzi)  and shot gun attachment.

[Raz0rx]

Ah yeah, i was just thinking say, if you chose Nades as an item.
It would auto attatch a nade launcher to the bottom of the gun.

Stuff like that.

[InvisibleMan999]

Am I the only one who doesn't think aggro is necessarily a bad thing?

While aggro shouldnt' be eliminated entirely, it could use the following nerfs:

1) get rid of the side grab (grabbing should be directly from behind, not the odd behind-and-to-the-left thing). This is probably the biggest aggro offender in my opinion, because it makes it possible to grab mercs with their backs to the wall. 

2) get rid of quick cams. I'm not talking about removing cams in general, just adding a slightly longer lag time before cameras can gas someone, especially in close combat. The game shouldn't turn into a battle of gassing a merc in mid-combat with a sticky cam, that seems far too similar to a pure FPS game. If you need a quick means to incapacitate a merc, it should be using your shocker. I'd really prefer cams be more of an ambush device as opposed to something that wins a game because the merc happened to get his gas mask on one second too late.

3) Get rid of SS+ triple nading. This one is fairly minor if you remove the side grab, since a cunning merc could still get his bearings and find a wall, but still it makes a merc a little too helpless for my liking and feels too much like a direct assault.

As compensation for removing this stuff you can have jumping no longer make a merc ungrabbable.

[Raz0rx]

The back-and-to-the-left grabbing is there cuz the gun is on the right side, making them harder to grab?
Quick cams are good.
Why shouldn't people be allowed to triple nade? That's just silly, imo.

And sif be able to grab a merc that's in mid-air.  ??? :-\

[Tidenburg]

Just a few ideas to stop 'annoying agro.'

With the tazer make it aim like the torque bow in Gears of War (if any of you have played it) and give it a limited range. This way when the spies are being chased they cant just instantly turn a shoot them and it also means that they cant move whilst aiming, give the thing a range limit and then the shocker isnt so agro any more. Make the gun glow (blue tip) where the taze is and make it more realistic. A suprising amount of people dont know that long range tazers require a piece of metal on the end of a piece of cable, this would be good for locating spies who are hiding and shooting.

When the spies are upclose you could add the non-lethal shotgun from DA-SP. Make it so it only hurts the spies slightly but causes them to recoil for a split second, this would give the mercs time to blast those few final shots or run away. Why not make it an attachment/gadget instead of a weapon.

[InvisibleMan999]

The back-and-to-the-left grabbing is there cuz the gun is on the right side, making them harder to grab?

It makes mercs a lot easier to grab, since you acn grab one with his back directly against the wall. That needs to go.

Quick cams are good.

A bit too good, and it turns the game into too much of a direct combat game, especially when you're dealing with a master of quick cam use. Cameras are designed more of an ambush tool than a direct combat device. You shouldnt' be using them in the middle of a firefight, at least not wtihout some prep time, like rounding a corner and firing a cam there, and waiting a second or two for the merc to follow.

Why shouldn't people be allowed to triple nade? That's just silly, imo.

Triple nading as a whole is pretty silly really. It was always a glitch of the launcher mechanics that allowed you to launch three separate grenades at super fast speeds. I don't see why spies can't get by with a single grenade or two while the merc is stunned by the shocker. You really don't need all three grenades.

And sif be able to grab a merc that's in mid-air.  ??? :-\

It's pretty silly that mercs are jumping around anyway. Jumping was sort of a way to balance out mercs on the xbox since they couldn't turn as fast, so they got the jump + quick turn maneuver. On PC this is totally unnecessary and mercs might as well not even be able to jump at all.

[Raz0rx]

Sounds like you wan't a DA clone, rather than a CT clone.

What you're also forgetting is changing something small COULD have a big impact on balance...