Cloak improvements.

[BurningDeath]

there's already another better one: not showing a static spy at all.

invisible: i'm not afraid of noobs, i just can't see the benefit of making gadgets more of a no-brainer.

Come on, that little change does not make camo a no-brainer at all.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

+1 you still have to think, it just makes timing easier.

[Westfall]

well you obviously want ps to become more of a no-brainer, and i don't. what you want is basically giving camo users a reward for being too stupid to use camo with the right timing and in the right location (which would require some recon and experience) and making the merc's job harder against unskilled players.

Because camo was invented in CT. You're right, as usual and the whole forum will bow down. Camo is the worst item to have right now aside from snares b/c they don't work well. This wouldn't be a no brainer, it would still waste energy AND time...2 of the most vital things to a spy aside from lives. Just because camo drains slower when the spy is at a standstill doesn't make it easier for the nubs. Realize that energy is STILL draining and as you move it drains quicker. If anything it will become harder because you have to plan your every movement to correspond with camo....and you have no clue what kind of traps/mines are around, which takes away from the use of camo.

there's already another better one: not showing a static spy at all.


Not showing a static spy at all makes it more of a no brainer than the drain time that you're so worried about.
invisible: i'm not afraid of noobs, i just can't see the benefit of making gadgets more of a no-brainer.

[Gawain]

there are plenty of simpler and better ways to boost camo:
-fixing eax-superhearing, emf ghosting and mt godliness
-making camo less visible
-make energy drain slower (but not depending on the speed)

what you either do with energy drawing based on speed is either punishing people that move with camo or reward people that don't move with it. i'm of the opinion that in the map design we know from ct there is enough cover everywhere that can be reached with camo in time before there is no energy left. there is also a simple counter to a moving spy with camo: motion tracking vision. so i can't see any reason besides people's lack of timing skills to change camo in that crysis-style way.

[BurningDeath]

there are plenty of simpler and better ways to boost camo:
-fixing eax-superhearing, emf ghosting and mt godliness
-making camo less visible
-make energy drain slower (but not depending on the speed)

what you either do with energy drawing based on speed is either punishing people that move with camo or reward people that don't move with it. i'm of the opinion that in the map design we know from ct there is enough cover everywhere that can be reached with camo in time before there is no energy left. there is also a simple counter to a moving spy with camo: motion tracking vision. so i can't see any reason besides people's lack of timing skills to change camo in that crysis-style way.

dude its not about rewarding spies that are standing still with camo, its about making camo more dynamic. You can decide, either have it drain quicklier but get to your target faster, or have it drain slowlier and reach your target later/wait for the merc for a longer time.
Sounds like a good idea to me.

[Neverdown]

Camo and Snares are tools for experienced players. Don't even think about making them newb friendly. If you want to make Project Stealth "newb friendly" give the spies a fucking rocket launcher.. :X

The problem with Camo and Snares is not that the idea is wrong, the execution is wrong. Players can hear a spy shooting a snare or activating his Camo suit all around the map. The easy fix for this would be to remove or reduce the activation sound of the suit or snares. Also, there are two ways to use snares: to create chaos or to create distraction. That's why the snares quantity should be "fixed" to 15 snares. This way you can spam the mercs hud at least 5 times.

But enough about snares, to fix camo just remove it's activation noise. I think that will fix a lot of things already. For "new" ideas like the energy draining being connected to the moving speed you should playtest to see if those are any good.

~Neverdown.

[Gawain]

affirmative

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Ehhh... cool. But what about my idea for a pretty balanced IMO camo?
I mean that the distance you can travel on camo should stay the same, while only altering the battery drining speed and keeping the spy 100% hidden wether he's creeping or running at full speed.

A secondary for camo, maybe?
It shouldn't be a huge distance, though. Maybe 3-5 meters?

[Gawain]

so you want to reduce the maximum camo distance to 5m AND allow running with it??? seriously dude...

[Farley4Fan]

Calling Crysis' camo suit is a gigantic overstatement.  It took a brain and planning to know when to stop and let it recharge, when to move, how fast to move, where to move, etc...  Quit exaggerating the "BAD" effects this will have on gameplay.  The good effects shine way over the so called "bad" effects anyways.  Crysis camo worked out extremely well, and don't say it's a different kind of game.  I'm talking about the camo suit and not the game in general. 

Crysis Suit:  Turn on to sneak across open areas.
CT Suit:  Turn on to sneak across open areas.

They are used for the same exact friggin purpose, Crysis' suit wasn't completely noob friendly as you say it is Rambo, and it doesn't reward campers.  Anyone who camps is going to accomplish nothing as a spy.  So, what's your problem?

[Gawain]

my problem is your ignorance

[InvisibleMan999]

there are plenty of simpler and better ways to boost camo:
-fixing eax-superhearing, emf ghosting and mt godliness
-making camo less visible
-make energy drain slower (but not depending on the speed)

I'd definitely be for those options instead of less drain while standing still. Personally I don't really see the point of less drain standing still if we use the new MT anyway. Less drain for slower movemetn would help with the old MT, since often times you had to really creep on camo, and it would run out on you. With the new MT idea, it'd be somewhat nice I guess, but I don't really see it doing much.

I really don't see the magical camo ambush points that would be so powerful. I mean, if you're looking to ambush an unexpecting merc, you just do back to the wall and he comes out and you grab him, camo or not. If the merc knows you're around and is expecting an ambush, then camo won't help you much.

Making camo less visible and fixing the superhearing I think would be a lot better ways to actually improve camo. Though the visibility issue is something that we'll have to watch carefully, since that may actually break it if it's too hard to see.

The energy drain thing is something that really can't break the gadget. You can pretty much allow camo to drain almost no energy and it still won't be broken as it is now. Right now the energy drain doesn't really do much aside from inconvenience the spy and make him less able to SS the merc if he gets discovered. Aside from that, seriously who really cares? You have to decloak to fire your SS, run or drop a nade.

[Farley4Fan]

my problem is your ignorance

Yet another very productive and convincing post.  Extremely effective counter, Rambo.  When all else fails attempt to flame your opponent eh?

What invisible said was this in a nutshell:  The camo suit's draining speed based on speed of the spy's movement isn't even a huge problem, nor would it present a huge problem if it were changed to a style similar to Crysis.  There are even more problems with it that could be solved to help it become a better gadget.

And I completely agree with that. 

Crysis camo is very logical too.  Moving too fast disables camo in CT.  Don't you think not moving at all should have a slower drain rate?  Like Crysis? 

You haven't given a single reason at all as to why this would break gameplay.  It doesn't even reward campers.  It just doesn't punish them or give them the same treatment as a moving spy, and that is a fast energy drain rate.  And seriously rambo, you are contradicting yourself big time.  You say to decrease the drain speed, so that rewards campers and movers.  But wait, aren't you so against a spy camping in one spot so he isn't seen? - at least against letting them camp there for longer?  Increasing the spy's energy does just that, let a camo using spy camp in one spot for a longer period of time.

I hope you try to continue this discussion, and not try to start a flame war.

[Blank Man]

my problem is your ignorance

The truth is spoken. Papa, have you ever noticed how you just ignore other comments and arguements, and never consider how this might benefit the game? All you do is try to promote yourself because are the kewlest and the smartest.

[Gawain]

papa, i've given very good reasons why your idea is idiotic. i've also suggested a good way to fix camo. it's really not my fault that you are too ignorant/stupid/lazy to read/understand my points.

here's another way to look at it that you might better understand: give players the freedom to do anything they want to in the camo-timer time. you always use your variety-point in the bullshit context of adding new gadgets/weapons, but oddly not here on a single gadget where it fits way better.

punishing movement or rewarding camping limits players' choices to use this gadget. besides, it makes it more flexible to use against unexpectedly appearing mercs which is a bad thing cause their skill should be rewarded, too (or your lack of recon should be punished). it also cripples the maximum possibilities of camo for pro-players for no good reason at all (merc not using mt/only using camnet => can't make any real use of that because going faster to move a larger distance undetected makes energy drain faster).

read my old posts and this one, and if you still don't get it, at least i can say i've tried everything i can. i won't definitely repeat myself for you on camo again.