Co-op, but with a twist.

[I <3 U]

so plz post them.

Would be easier for all if you just bullet pointed here dude.

[frvge]

A more logically, semi-story-driven SvM.
Less freedom for moving around
increasing difficulty



Basically you can have it like this:

break through the outer defense in the forest
infiltrate some mansion
infiltrate high-security wing by using 2 retinal scanners at the same time, or slowly overloading some circuits somewhere else.

Splitup:
<--- hack the vault on the first floor
<--- clear the path to the server room in the basement

meet up and upload the stolen data from the vault in the serverroom.


Each stage will take approx 5-8 minutes.

Mercs can oversee the courtyard from the mansion (bit like Orph) or walk in a fenced-off area.
After Spies got in, Mercs get teleported to the inside where they get like 20 secs to put up... let's say 1 mine and one detector each. They can choose to upgrade weapon or w/e (maybe a bit RPG? Making this up on the spot). Then they guard the scanners/circuit. (have to split up).
In the next stage, the Mercs have access to some fast Merc-only elevator, so they have an advantage with speed.
In the final stage, the Mercs are 100% armed, inner static defense are in high-alert, automatic turrets etc. The Mercs try to cut-off the Spies. Spies can try to outmanouver the Merc by speed, or by sneaking.

The pace of the game will be like Coop. Not like SvM. So hall-ways are long. ;)

[Farley4Fan]

Dude.  That would be awesome.  When you first started describing it I immediately thought Bank from CT single player.  Just put 8 mercs on 1 team, give them all a choice of 1 gadget + rifle, and put them in a distinct area where they have to patrol.  Unless the alarm is set then all mercs are free to roam.  Just spitballing.

[Gawain]

frvge, that's not a list, that's an example  ::)

[frvge]

Yeah, but it still shows the differences.

[I <3 U]

One thing lads, some poor little merc will have to wait AGES for his spy round?!

[VaNilla]

Just like my first post does Rambo :). You really are my favourite moron.

Great news, Frvge hit the nail on the head! Someone with half a brain! Although one thing you say is wrong, you say there is 'Less freedom for moving around' so again, I'll direct you to the first post where I said this, 'As the stages progress mercs get more equipment, but the spies have more environment to use against them. This would make the way the spies use their environment more interesting, and considering the equipment available for the mercs and the environment at the spies disposal become more advanced as the stages progress, this interest would continue to exist.'

FR33M4N, you make it seem like being a merc is a bad thing by saying that, the spies do have limited lives so if they are owning it's not really going to last very long, but what's so wrong with being a 'poor little merc', explain. Now we clarified these things, I want to direct a question to the team. Once you have all finished working on the main SvM mode, would a project for making this mode ever become a possibility? But to deviate again I do love a good bit of drama so lets get back to you Rambo.

you're the retard...
you're obviously inable to make a list with the exact properties of your mode suggestion. by list i mean not tons of blahblah with no clear substance but a fucking list with distinct points.

I'm the retard, explain? Next time you call ME a retard make sure what you're saying makes grammatical sense. Did you ever think (that's probably a bad question) that maybe a list could actually be the WORST possible way of EXPLAINING your ideas? If I made a list I'd be asked to explain in detail what I actually meant by my points, but I avoided all that and made it very easy to understand with detailed explanations, yet people on Project Stealth are an expception to this rule, and suddenly have a mental block when they don't have their information organised into a list, unbelievable.

I'll have you know though I can organise a list - I don't want you to loose sleep at night ;). Maybe a few things to think about are first of all to get your facts rights, stop criticising something when you can't even be bothered to read the first post about it, and flying statements around like 'tons of blahblah with no clear substance' and 'fucking list with distinct points' which don't make any sense does NOT make you clever, it makes you look like the opposite.

[I <3 U]

Just like my first post does Rambo :). You really are my favourite moron.

Great news, Frvge hit the nail on the head! Someone with half a brain! Although one thing you say is wrong, you say there is 'Less freedom for moving around' so again, I'll direct you to the first post where I said this, 'As the stages progress mercs get more equipment, but the spies have more environment to use against them. This would make the way the spies use their environment more interesting, and considering the equipment available for the mercs and the environment at the spies disposal become more advanced as the stages progress, this interest would continue to exist.'

FR33M4N, you make it seem like being a merc is a bad thing by saying that, the spies do have limited lives so if they are owning it's not really going to last very long, but what's so wrong with being a 'poor little merc', explain. Now we clarified these things, I want to direct a question to the team. Once you have all finished working on the main SvM mode, would a project for making this mode ever become a possibility? But to deviate again I do love a good bit of drama so lets get back to you Rambo.

you're the retard...
you're obviously inable to make a list with the exact properties of your mode suggestion. by list i mean not tons of blahblah with no clear substance but a fucking list with distinct points.

I'm the retard, explain? Next time you call ME a retard make sure what you're saying makes grammatical sense. Did you ever think (that's probably a bad question) that maybe a list could actually be the WORST possible way of EXPLAINING your ideas? If I made a list I'd be asked to explain in detail what I actually meant by my points, but I avoided all that and made it very easy to understand with detailed explanations, yet people on Project Stealth are an expception to this rule, and suddenly have a mental block when they don't have their information organised into a list, unbelievable.

I'll have you know though I can organise a list - I don't want you to loose sleep at night ;). Maybe one thing to think about Rambo is first of all to get your facts rights, stop criticising something when you can't even be bothered to read the first post, and flying statements around like 'tons of blahblah with no clear substance' and 'fucking list with distinct points' which don't make any sense does NOT make you clever, it makes you look the opposite.

Nothing wrong with being merc, but ill put it like this, do you get pissed when uve finished ur merc round and the spy host quits server so you get no rev? Yes. Do you want to be merc for an hour waiting for your spy round. No. Other than that i think its awesome.

[VaNilla]

I get pissed when a host quits after I've just played spy, it's about a balanced experienced and if you don't have an experience that's fun both ways then what's the point. The way I see it you should be able to have the same amount of fun playing as mercs for an hour as you can experience with playing as a spy. But yes, at the very moment with CT that is not the case - but that's what I think is going to change.

[frvge]

The Stonecoldkilla version might differ slightly from my version.
In my version, Spies do not have a weapon nor gadgets nor visions and 3 lives for all stages combined.
Mercs start with a sniper for the long-range first defense, like orph, and then gradually get more and more.
Mercs sometimes operate from positions that Spies can not reach, like sniping spots, security centers etc.
Spies on the other hand can use vents. Basically Spies get sneaky routes and Mercs get overview of the larger areas. Think like Upper Pirate Room in Aquarius in CT.

Waiting for the Spy round is not the case. You either play as Merc, or as Spy. Since a game will be around 30 minutes... ;). Heck, you can have mandatory side-quests to make it easier/harder for Spies and/or Mercs.
Think like short-cirtcuiting security as Spy to bypass a laser grid, or 'upgrading' automated turrets by 'hacking' them as Merc.

It'll be more like a real Coop mode than SvM.

The 'main' SvM is only planned for now. It is possible to make the Coop, as its basically just an extension, but I do not think we have time for it.

[Gawain]

stonecoldkilla: you call me names for requesting you to structure and summarize your ideas?? that's exactly what would provide a good basis for a discussion.
i didn't even criticise your idea as it's not exactly clear to me how your mode should work exactly and what the differences to a sector based standard svm map are (obviously it wasn't that clear to frvge as well, as your two versions kinda differ from each other...). i'm not bashing your idea, i just want to understand it more clearly.
it's really pathetic of you to call me a moron/retard/whatever for that, but i guess it's only a compensation for your lack of expression and analytical thinking.

how about responding to that?

instead of having to explain everything ten times, you could just make a goddamn list...
besides, it would force you to make more clear statements like how many and which gadgets one gets etc.

[Westfall]

While I don't mind the idea of making a mode that seems more realistic and harder at that, I think it would have to wait until PS v. 2 due to map making. Is this hard to program? Would you use similar maps or have to create a whole new strand? Unfortunately I'm not really a big fan of this one. Like I said, I like the realism and how hard it might actually end up being....in the end it would be equivalent to disk hunt. Spies win disk hunt easy. Way too easy, which is why it sucked so much. Mercs will win this new mode with ease. ESPECIALLY if the spies have 0-2 gadgets. Few gadgets versus guns w/ visions....hahahahahaha. This mode will be obsolete within a week aside from the guy that just got the game and doesn't have the newest patches ;) . Then again...some people actually play DM...hahahahahahaha.

[Farley4Fan]

While I don't mind the idea of making a mode that seems more realistic and harder at that, I think it would have to wait until PS v. 2 due to map making. Is this hard to program? Would you use similar maps or have to create a whole new strand? Unfortunately I'm not really a big fan of this one. Like I said, I like the realism and how hard it might actually end up being....in the end it would be equivalent to disk hunt. Spies win disk hunt easy. Way too easy, which is why it sucked so much. Mercs will win this new mode with ease. ESPECIALLY if the spies have 0-2 gadgets. Few gadgets versus guns w/ visions....hahahahahaha. This mode will be obsolete within a week aside from the guy that just got the game and doesn't have the newest patches ;) . Then again...some people actually play DM...hahahahahahaha.

Good point.  This is exactly why I suggested a balancing act mode.  Where, in the beginning, it's easy for spies to win because of their superior gadgets, easier maps, and easier mercs.  However, as the game goes on, it gets harder for spies and mercs get new gadgets and the maps become harder with more defenses and such.  It would provide a challenge everytime even for the more experienced players.

[VaNilla]

I can't stress enough, I don't know how many times I have said this now...

'The less equipment the mercs have to use against the spies, the less environment the spies have to use against the mercs. Then as the stages progress mercs get more equipment, but the spies have more environment to use against them. This would make the way the spies use their environment more interesting, and considering the equipment available for the mercs and the environment at the spies disposal become more advanced as the stages progress, this interest would continue to exist.'

Frvge's version definitely differs in the sense of gadgets, I think spies should have the same 4 gadgets from the start, while mercs get gadgets at spies progress through the maps. However, in terms of the environment it starts out very open, which means that the spies have that dis-advantage of being seen very easily unless they use that environment to the best of their ability, but as they progress through the levels the environment becomes more advanced meaning that spies start to gain on their advantages as the mercs do too. This keeps everyone on their toes so it's not balanced to one side.

Rambo I'm sorry for lashing out I was having a bad day, sorry. Point is I just don't think a list is the best way of talking about this mode, a list wouldn't explain it very well which is why I don't see the point in making one. But you did say 'expression and analytical thinking' well if what I've been doing the whole topic isn't helping to analyse and express my thoughts I don't know what is.

[frvge]

Cleaned up at the request of the TS.

Arguing can be done at SCL and in PMs. Or make a special thread. I don't care. As long as the threads itself are mostly on-topic...