DM , as a way to introduce new faces to PS.

[VaNilla]

FR33M4N the whole flaw in what you're saying is that apparently we can't argue that playing the main game mode is a better way of learning how to play the game than DM is... and your absolutely wrong, because DM only teaches you how to do a few things like necking mercs, jumping on mercs, a gadget or two and basic stealth techniques, whereas Story Mode includes everything the game has to offer.

Oh and you do also say 'DM would give players a way of learning maps without getting raped by mercs.' Isn't the whole objective of Deathmatch to kill or be killed? That hardly seems like the best way to go about learning maps and not getting 'raped' by mercs.

You do say that DM would 'Make the game more user friendly' but what about when people decide to play Story Mode? If you think that wont be 'User friendly' then the basic aim of the game is lost, your suggesting people only play DM mode in that respect. The best way to learn to play the game is my idea of multiplayer tutorial maps IMO.

[Gawain]

affirmative.

[I <3 U]

FR33M4N the whole flaw in what you're saying is that apparently we can't argue that playing the main game mode is a better way of learning how to play the game than DM is... and your absolutely wrong, because DM only teaches you how to do a few things like necking mercs, jumping on mercs, a gadget or two and basic stealth techniques, whereas Story Mode includes everything the game has to offer.

Oh and you do also say 'DM would give players a way of learning maps without getting raped by mercs.' Isn't the whole objective of Deathmatch to kill or be killed? That hardly seems like the best way to go about learning maps and not getting 'raped' by mercs.

You do say that DM would 'Make the game more user friendly' but what about when people decide to play Story Mode? If you think that wont be 'User friendly' then the basic aim of the game is lost, your suggesting people only play DM mode in that respect. The best way to learn to play the game is my idea of multiplayer tutorial maps IMO.

I haven't had one tutorial which was fun, they just bore and annoy me. I'm not saying you can't argue this or that, i just get annoyed some people want dm out. I mean it can only add to the game, and there's no denying the fact it would bring more players to the game. The more gametypes the better IMO. In deathmatch on any map, you can move way more freely than story, we all know that. This would allow players to go explore the maps and get to know them. And I don't know how 'story mode has everything the game has to offer works. If DM goes with all gadgets etc, apart from the actual objectives of Deathmatch and Story, they're identical. You have to remember Splinter Cell is not the average FPS. Map knowledge is essential, either in DM or story, knowledge of the gadgets are essential, in both DM and story. Learning how to play, when to do things, when to aggro, when not to aggro, when to hide, when to rush, is essential. Learning Visions, and how the work, the flaws of using visions, mines and mine placement, hearing etc etc is essential. You can't say this is a 'User friendly' game, like a racing game for example. People play the game because it's challenging, and is different everytime, it's a complicated diverse game, and in no means is it user friendly. After a few weeks of solid playing, only then do you start to realise what everything does and how it works. Atleast in Deathmatch one would be able to MORE freely explore maps and gadgets, and come to terms with the basic game mechanics, like gadgets, visions (and the flaws of them), movement, stealth, aggro etc. DM doesn't rely on teamwork as much as story IMO. On some maps in story, for example station without teamwork you're fucked. So if you're new to the game with no knowledge of the map and you just follow your partner, you wont learn anything. Atleast in DM you'd be able to move more freely. I think having a deathmatch would HELP new players come to terms with the mechanics of the game, but MAYBE if the tutorial was done very well, interactive, on a fun and interesting map with good narration, it could work. I think a combination of a good deathmatch mode, and a decent tutorial is the way to go. I mean after all, sometimes you just wanna play a bit of DM:P.

[Gawain]

dm might bring in more/new players, but it could also give them a wrong impression of svm. i'm not totally against it as it works as a filter afterall, but it can in no way replace a tutorial. in order to make this community grow, there must happen 3 things:
-good tutorial
-balanced e-sport environment (fast and regular balance patches, a replay system, regular tournaments, ...)
-good advertisement

[I <3 U]

And you can't argue that the most affective way to learn basic game mechanics (how the game is played, gadgets map) is easier in DM. 

you should learn this stuff in the tutorial so that you aren't clueless when you start playing online. no need to add dm for this reason...

Heck then how many tutorials we thinking of here? 5- 10? They'd all be long as fuck aswell, after a while you'd just switch off. I mean when you read something, how much of it do you remember? It's only through repetition that you actually remember everything. Nobody wants to do 5 long ass tutorials 5 times each. There will be so much to learn in the tutorial I think it will be to much. DM would just allow players to practise what they've learnt in the tutorial. You can't teach stealth in a tutorial you know.

[I <3 U]

dm might bring in more/new players, but it could also give them a wrong impression of svm. i'm not totally against it as it works as a filter afterall, but it can in no way replace a tutorial. in order to make this community grow, there must happen 3 things:
-good tutorial
-balanced e-sport environment (fast and regular balance patches, a replay system, regular tournaments, ...)
-good advertisement

Ah yeh, good point about the tournies, that'd be awesome.

[Gawain]

hopefully the ping/netcode will allow intercontinental tournaments, too =)

well the tutorial must comprehend
-controls, movement (climbing, crouching, coop, quick-dive, wall-jump etc)
-every function of the hud including special visions (incl. what exactly sets off the sound reticule, mt, emf etc)
-weapons and gadgets (function and different uses)
-passive security
-all types of objectives
-interaction with the enemy: tazing/grabbing/pushing a merc model/bot
-basic map layout of the beta map
-short video examples of teamplay and actual gameplay incl reminder that it's about the objectives and not about killing the opponent (covering each other, splitting up in one merc's area, diversions etc)

most of this stuff should probably be done seperately for merc and spy.
the tutorial should consist of several standalone levels so that you don't have to play the tutorial for 45min and can return to previous lessons easily once a question arises online.
there also should be some link to a newcomer forum section...

[I <3 U]

hopefully the ping/netcode will allow intercontinental tournaments, too =)

well the tutorial must comprehend
-controls, movement (climbing, crouching, coop, quick-dive, wall-jump etc)
-every function of the hud including special visions (incl. what exactly sets off the sound reticule, mt, emf etc)
-weapons and gadgets (function and different uses)
-passive security
-all types of objectives
-interaction with the enemy: tazing/grabbing/pushing a merc model/bot
-basic map layout of the beta map
-short video examples of teamplay and actual gameplay incl reminder that it's about the objectives and not about killing the opponent (covering each other, splitting up in one merc's area, diversions etc)

most of this stuff should probably be done seperately for merc and spy.
the tutorial should consist of several standalone levels so that you don't have to play the tutorial for 45min and can return to previous lessons easily once a question arises online.
there also should be some link to a newcomer forum section...

Thats a lot to cover, in a short time. Maybe 5 or 6 tuts all split up into sections would be better.

[Gawain]

yeah absolutely.

[VaNilla]

I still think my idea of the special MP tutorials is best :P.

[VaNilla]

I'm not arguing that DM shouldn't be included because it should - to stop people loading story games only to find people playing DM :P. However, there is a lot more to the upgrade from DM to Story than gadgets and objectives, the whole tactics of the game start rolling in the other direction, the path to 'the real world' :P. I'll bring my idea up again.

Obviously this is a multiplayer game, so why do all the tutorials have to be single player? There could be one spy only multiplayer map to show the spies all their moves, gadgets and how security works and everything else, and one for mercs with the same purpose. After that there could be a few more multiplayer tutorial levels, except this time for 2 spies AND 2 mercs. In these maps the spies and mercs must each work together to stop the other team from succeeding in their objective.

Imagine you load up and each team is spawned in a room, and a video appears in the middle of the screen a bit like on the beginning of the match on Double Agent, except the game is paused and you have to watch through the whole thing (unless you are playing through the map and it's not your first time, you would then have the option to skip) which would describe the objective of the map, give tips on the kind of things you can use to complete the objective, then the video switches off. Countdown - 3, 2, 1, GO! Imagine this - you must use co-ops moves to progress up a large building to it's roof (Leg-ups, throwing across gaps, rappelling) and the mercs have to try and stop you before you complete the objective (Camnet while other scouts using lifts for example). Each team has to win that stage twice before they can move on, and each round players swap teams.

Next round, same again except this time you are placed in a large map with many vents, and the spies must sneak through them to the other side of the map, the mercs must stop them doing this, but how? Remember the remote mine from DA? Imagine each merc has to use these while communicating with each other to make their way through the vents to find the spies. They have a limit of 1 each, so if they mis-fire they are out and have to travel on foot to each exit searching for the spies, the spies must communicate with each other to avoid the remote mines and make it to the finish. There could be a few more rounds after this, but I have to go soon so I can't describe my ideas right now.

Throughout tutorials maps, the ghosting Double Agent took advantage of should be used. This would help the spies and mercs find useful ways of using the environment to their advantage, so they have a better chance of surviving in the real game. The purpose of these tutorial map would be basically to build on communication skills and team play - SvM is all about team play and without working together you will fail, and these maps would make sure you have the skills to play together. :D

[Gawain]

a mp tutorial map sounds like a nice idea for the last step of the tutorial, but i guess it's kinda hard to find some1 else doing the tut after the first weeks...

[InvisibleMan999]

-good tutorial
-balanced e-sport environment (fast and regular balance patches, a replay system, regular tournaments, ...)
-good advertisement

The other thing I'd add to that is

-obvious mechanics (if you make sound, you should know you're making sound for instance and you should have a good idea as to how far away a merc can hear it, you should not require a partner to test the basic game mechanics)

[frvge]

There are ideas for some nice visual feedback for that. I dont know about the exact range tho, but we'll probably find something for that too.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

glowing colourful rings around the spy

Visible to the merc too, for better gameplay ::)