****New Spy Gadget Idea ****

[I <3 U]

Its funny because you actually don't make a legitimate argument at all. Its not because I've had trouble with mercs using camnet. The time limit is so that the piece of eq. isn't infinite. If you read through the thread you would have seen that. The same should go for hbs.

so your point is that something being infinite is bad because.... it's infinite???

basically balancing camnet is pretty easy: have enough counters that are good for intense gameplay. for instance, some routes not covered by camnet, vulnerable/immobile/blind merc while using it etc. the whole problem on maps like factory is that camnet basically covers everything and that there are some central save points to camp with it (corridor B mainly). having camnet drain some battery power doesn't help shit because against good players you only cycle through the cams very quickly because you have to be on the move anyways.

Or you can just get your ass against a wall and use it forever.

[Spekkio]

so your point is that something being infinite is bad because.... it's infinite???

Infinite camnet is gay because a merc will usually sit in a safe spot and continually use it while the other merc hunts the spies (don't give me the "balance the maps" thing, there are going to be safe spots in any map). The only counter to it is to say fuck it and try to use the spy's speed to keep the mercs on the move. Either way, the mercs have an easier time of it because they know where you are.

It also looks like a stubby penis.

Hence, camnet is gay.

[Gawain]

yes, i'll give you the balance-the-maps thingy. there will be safe spots on every map, but camnet get's only a pain in the ass if it covers too much of the map (factory, river mall, polar base) and if there's a central camping point providing access to most if not all key points (like corridor b on factory or elevator on museum). another problem with camnet is that most areas are way too bright, that camo is too weak and that one doesn't have to move the cam in most locations to see the important stuff once it's in position (thus allowing very quick controlling of a huge area of the map). fix that stuff and you have a very balanced gadget that enhances the depth tremendously.

[Westfall]

yes, i'll give you the balance-the-maps thingy. there will be safe spots on every map, but camnet get's only a pain in the ass if it covers too much of the map (factory, river mall, polar base) and if there's a central camping point providing access to most if not all key points (like corridor b on factory or elevator on museum). another problem with camnet is that most areas are way too bright, that camo is too weak and that one doesn't have to move the cam in most locations to see the important stuff once it's in position (thus allowing very quick controlling of a huge area of the map). fix that stuff and you have a very balanced gadget that enhances the depth tremendously.

For one, there can be a central camping spot no matter where you are on ANY map. Back to wall...thats it. Being able to flip through and tell your mate where to go all the time makes the gadget overpowering AND boring to the game. Placement will always be a key point, but what retard doesn't know that shit? I'm sick of the "camo's weak." The only way its weak is when you get caught with it. If you're moving and the outline is seen....well...stop fuckin moving and you won't be seen. This is why camnet is good...it exposes those using the gadget poorly. Without visions and a battery (time limit) you can't see the camo on EMF and you might not be able to find someone while flipping through. The only way a "pro" flips through and takes off really quickly is because his mate is a noob. If you're playing with a good player, you can sit there most of the time and just talk to one another. Fixing your 2 options doesn't add depth to shit. Rather it makes the user still able to just sit and stare through the camera. I don't know what more you're looking for here, but camnet being infinite might as well be a hack. Same shit goes for hbs. Most "pros" (again, you don't get paid to play the fucking game, so there is nothing professional about it) whip out hbs quickly and 360 it quickly and put it away because they are always on the move, so there really isn't any reason for it to be infinite. I'm kind of done with the whole arguing of this shit. If you're still blind to the reasons as to why camnet shouldn't be infinite...well...I guess you can't always convince people what's right and what's wrong just because you said it. You can only sit back in awe and watch the retardation unfold.

[Gawain]

you came up with no point at all why camnet shouldn't be infinite. either remove it from the game or balance it via placement of cams/shadows/map layout.

you're right about hbs, letting it drain energy doesn't make much difference for good players. i can only think of 2 occasions it might change something at high levels:
-trying to go into camo directly after using it
-using hbs to time a quickcam camper-style
so yeah, hbs should drain energy. but i guess if that suggestion came from me no1 would agree on it cause it makes life for noobs way harder.

[I <3 U]

you came up with no point at all why camnet shouldn't be infinite. either remove it from the game or balance it via placement of cams/shadows/map layout.

you're right about hbs, letting it drain energy doesn't make much difference for good players. i can only think of 2 occasions it might change something at high levels:
-trying to go into camo directly after using it
-using hbs to time a quickcam camper-style
so yeah, hbs should drain energy. but i guess if that suggestion came from me no1 would agree on it cause it makes life for noobs way harder.

Firing cams doesn't take any battery power either.

[Snakebit.]

Well a lot of ideas are mentioned here but how do you implement them in the game without making them useless or making the game imbalanced????

Hbs + power drain is a useless combo. Most good players don't use it for long. People usually turn it on fast , check things around themselves and then turn it off . How will power drain effect that ?
Well you can make it last for 3 seconds only , but that will be absurd because new players will never be able to use it well and this will also encourage the fast usage of that item...... Which is imho not the point of it.

Camp with hbs + Cam will be impossible you think ? But you can always switch between gadget 1 and gadget 2 to prevent the drain of energy , can't you ?

The only balance to the gadget IMHO is to weaken it a bit , but not by power drain , but by making the Scan Wave take more time + not showing the target on the radar all the time .. ( Only make it possible to see the location where the target was for 0.2 sec and make the wave take 4-5 sec ) < I am not sure of time because , once again , it will need balancing.


If the Camnets gets a power drain , it will get weakened a bit , but it will still remain a powerful tool , one might say even an imbalanced one . I agree that on some maps it is very imbalanced , BUT if you haven't noticed it is only imbalanced on HUGE MAPS ( Factory , Rivermall , Polar base ) . If there was no camnet on those maps ( Excluding polar base ) , it would be almost impossible for the merc to win the map . There are only 2 mercs and it's impossible for 2 of them to check 3 huge sectors all the time . The spy would be able to do his job the DA style .( Sneak - Hack - Run - Hide 100 times all over again )

Camnet prevents the Sneak-Hack-Run-Hide scenario on huge maps and i think that it is not a very bad thing. Camnet might be imbalanced on those maps , but on the other hand mercs are already weakened on those maps by the sheer amount of space they need to check so the map becomes more balanced with it.


Like Spekkio said Camnet is almost crap when it comes to dealing with small rooms , but its not totally useless in my opinion . In my experience it is not so bad to prevent the spy from hacking the ND for additional 1-2 sec than to have 2 more nades + 2 more mines . ( There is the good old suicide for more gadgets )

In addition the main point of the Camnet is to LOCATE the spy , not to track him . Locating will probably be still not so hard . Although Power Drain will make tracking him almost impossible , but than the Sneak-hack-run-hide tactic will be impossible or at the very least very hard to counter. In DA the info could be destroyed , but in CT you can hack the objective 1-2 sec and it will remain , so in one way it could get even worse than DA.


I think that hbs + power drain is useless .
I think that Camnet + power drain has it pros and cons but in general it's a bad idea.

[VaNilla]

I really like the idea however I don't think anyone would use up the gadget space for something limited to doors.

[Gawain]

i fully agree with snakebit.

simply play around with camnet placement to get it right on every map (&remove special visions).

regarding hbs, i'd change two things:
-make the merc's position only light up when the scanning wave runs over it, rate ~ 1Hz
-make scanned mercs also appear on mate's radar

[Spekkio]

Hbs + power drain is a useless combo. Most good players don't use it for long. People usually turn it on fast , check things around themselves and then turn it off . How will power drain effect that ?
Well you can make it last for 3 seconds only , but that will be absurd because new players will never be able to use it well and this will also encourage the fast usage of that item...... Which is imho not the point of it.

I disagree. Using the HBS for even a short period of time takes one shot off the SS...that's one shot less you have to defend yourself if you get caught.

Camp with hbs + Cam will be impossible you think ? But you can always switch between gadget 1 and gadget 2 to prevent the drain of energy , can't you ?

Make it so that HBS won't activate if the energy meter isn't full like camo. Problem solved.

The only balance to the gadget IMHO is to weaken it a bit , but not by power drain , but by making the Scan Wave take more time + not showing the target on the radar all the time .. ( Only make it possible to see the location where the target was for 0.2 sec and make the wave take 4-5 sec ) < I am not sure of time because , once again , it will need balancing.

I don't like the idea of a target sometimes appearing on radar. That's what happens with spy bullets currently, and it's excessively annoying.

If the Camnets gets a power drain , it will get weakened a bit , but it will still remain a powerful tool , one might say even an imbalanced one . I agree that on some maps it is very imbalanced , BUT if you haven't noticed it is only imbalanced on HUGE MAPS ( Factory , Rivermall , Polar base ).

I think camnet is imbalanced because the mercs can use it indefinitely and there is no direct counter to it on the spy side short of running around. More importantly, I don't like the fact that it allows the mercs to play a more campy playstyle, which makes them a lot less susceptible to ambushes, which in turn makes them a lot less susceptible to being incapacitated.

If there was no camnet on those maps ( Excluding polar base ) , it would be almost impossible for the merc to win the map .

I strongly disagree. Spy traps are very useful on those maps, although they have their own issues as well. Even with just double backpack + mines, it's very possible to win on those maps.

And really, this isn't any problem that can't be solved by upping the passive defenses in the map rather than having the merc operate some of the cameras.

There are only 2 mercs and it's impossible for 2 of them to check 3 huge sectors all the time . The spy would be able to do his job the DA style .( Sneak - Hack - Run - Hide 100 times all over again )

Welcome to the current state of CT.

Camnet prevents the Sneak-Hack-Run-Hide scenario on huge maps and i think that it is not a very bad thing. Camnet might be imbalanced on those maps , but on the other hand mercs are already weakened on those maps by the sheer amount of space they need to check so the map becomes more balanced with it.

Camnet only takes the sneak and hide out of that strat, so it boils down to just run-hack. The only map that's too big for mercs to cover effectively is Vertigo.

Like Spekkio said Camnet is almost crap when it comes to dealing with small rooms , but its not totally useless in my opinion . In my experience it is not so bad to prevent the spy from hacking the ND for additional 1-2 sec than to have 2 more nades + 2 more mines . ( There is the good old suicide for more gadgets )

Yes but this is where spy traps become more useful than camnet.

[Roberto1223]

but it could also trigger hacking alerts at random times if placed next to a hacking panel =)

see rambo is helpin me here, thats what i meant :P


my idea to fix when mercs put their back to the walls is the following:
"maybe we should make a camnet that is like virtual reality to the merc, where if he wants to turn the camera he has to turn his whole body, not just press a button that way, the merc wont be able to put his back to the wall with camnet to save his ass."

hope you get my idea, plz let me know what you think for that fix i came up with, if u have a better idea that is not a time limit plz post!  reply

[Roberto1223]

camnet with time limit? that's almost as much bullshit like agent's idea XD

im with Rambo, first i thought i was with westfall too but, "timelimit on camnet"? are you kidding lol!!! dude just cause u have had trouble against mercs who use camnet dosent mean u can propose an idea to ur personal advantage, just use teamwork or outsmart the god damn merc who cant really see what the hell is going on infront of him.

Its funny because you actually don't make a legitimate argument at all. Its not because I've had trouble with mercs using camnet. The time limit is so that the piece of eq. isn't infinite. If you read through the thread you would have seen that. The same should go for hbs.

besides what if ur moving in on the merc using camnet wanting to break his neck and now with that dumb idea u gotta count in ur head to see if u can attack him or not, thats bs..

Thats not BS. Thats a risk you're taking. It could happen at any moment when the merc turns off camnet anyways. Its a chance thing that takes a gamble. If it turns off because the battery drained, then its just bad luck on your part....but really it would be practically the same as a merc switching it off and you standing right next to him. I just don't want the gadget infinite.

its funny because your idea is so gay.

so your sayin there is no reason for timed camnet, its just childish naggin of urs because u just dont want it to be like that.

bull shit, u must have a reason u just dont wanna say thats why i supposed u were having trouble with mercs using camnet.

plus its a lame idea anyway, most of PS comunity wants a game that ubi was never able to polish off, a more realistic game.
putting a gay time limit on a device that in real life wouldnt have timelimit (or at least not in seconds or even minutes) is dumb

also the flashlight battery idea i think is lame i mean, how often do u change batteries on ur flashlight, give me a fuckin break or just buy a new fuckin flashlight lol.

spies take too many risks as it is already having to count on top of them all is simply unrealistic, lame, and gay.

[Gawain]

I disagree. Using the HBS for even a short period of time takes one shot off the SS...that's one shot less you have to defend yourself if you get caught.

i don't think that one shot makes any difference, especially with a better mouse implementation and better netcode. though it would definitely make a difference for using camo, and according to your suggestion, for further hbs use.

Make it so that HBS won't activate if the energy meter isn't full like camo. Problem solved.

this idea is really something we should look into. i don't have time to think about it properly now, i'll come back to that later.

I don't like the idea of a target sometimes appearing on radar. That's what happens with spy bullets currently, and it's excessively annoying.

i have to agree, it's really fucking annoying that you can't rely on it. guess bullets should also show static mercs.

I strongly disagree. Spy traps are very useful on those maps, although they have their own issues as well.

spytraps are almost a wasted slot against skilled opponents having chaff with them (there are a few very lame spots but that's about it; besides, they overlap with poison mines 50% of the time). i don't think they add much to the gameplay, i'd rather see phosphorous nades have a comeback instead of spytraps in a changed way.

Even with just double backpack + mines, it's very possible to win on those maps.

yes it's possible to win with double bp, but don't tell me patroulling is effective on those maps. all you do is take wild guesses based on tons of experience on a certain map, and the rest is even more camping a central spot and starting to run as soon as you get a security breach/noise/objective hacked somewhere.

I think camnet is imbalanced because the mercs can use it indefinitely and there is no direct counter to it on the spy side short of running around. More importantly, I don't like the fact that it allows the mercs to play a more campy playstyle, which makes them a lot less susceptible to ambushes, which in turn makes them a lot less susceptible to being incapacitated.

yes there are some direct counters to it: moving around the cams' covered area (which should be possible on a balanced map), making use of/attacking the static merc, etc.
once again, i don't wanna play a game that cycles solely around incapacitating the merc.

And really, this isn't any problem that can't be solved by upping the passive defenses in the map rather than having the merc operate some of the cameras.

generally there's a lack of passive security on ct maps. some ground between pt security castles and ct runaround playgrounds should be found for ps.

[Spekkio]

spytraps are almost a wasted slot against skilled opponents having chaff with them (there are a few very lame spots but that's about it; besides, they overlap with poison mines 50% of the time). i don't think they add much to the gameplay, i'd rather see phosphorous nades have a comeback instead of spytraps in a changed way.

Spy traps are still useful, although I do think that they need to be changed. Namely, I think the ability to instantly remove them if you're with your partner needs to be taken out, and chaff shouldn't work through walls.

yes it's possible to win with double bp, but don't tell me patroulling is effective on those maps. all you do is take wild guesses based on tons of experience on a certain map, and the rest is even more camping a central spot and starting to run as soon as you get a security breach/noise/objective hacked somewhere.

Factory: I suppose no one's figured out since the tourney that if you stand in MH right in front of the vent you can tell where the spies are going from spawn and act accordingly? No noise on reticle = B/C. Noise on reticle = he fell down underneath. Spy pops out from vent up top and you shoot him. Not very hard to figure out.

As for Mall, the entire map is a bottleneck, and you can go check the holigram manually if you're stuck. The map is actually a lot more fun without camnet.

Anyway, you're right that patrolling is not as effective as camnet, and that's the point. Mercs win the vast majority of the time, and in a balanced game the winrate would be closer to 50/50.

once again, i don't wanna play a game that cycles solely around incapacitating the merc.

I hate to tell you, but CT already relies on incapacitating the mercs to win. Sure, the first objective or two you might be able to get away with running around and keeping the mercs away, but eventually the area of coverage is going to get small enough where you're going to have to take out a merc to win.

[Westfall]

camnet with time limit? that's almost as much bullshit like agent's idea XD

im with Rambo, first i thought i was with westfall too but, "timelimit on camnet"? are you kidding lol!!! dude just cause u have had trouble against mercs who use camnet dosent mean u can propose an idea to ur personal advantage, just use teamwork or outsmart the god damn merc who cant really see what the hell is going on infront of him.

Its funny because you actually don't make a legitimate argument at all. Its not because I've had trouble with mercs using camnet. The time limit is so that the piece of eq. isn't infinite. If you read through the thread you would have seen that. The same should go for hbs.

besides what if ur moving in on the merc using camnet wanting to break his neck and now with that dumb idea u gotta count in ur head to see if u can attack him or not, thats bs..

Thats not BS. Thats a risk you're taking. It could happen at any moment when the merc turns off camnet anyways. Its a chance thing that takes a gamble. If it turns off because the battery drained, then its just bad luck on your part....but really it would be practically the same as a merc switching it off and you standing right next to him. I just don't want the gadget infinite.

its funny because your idea is so gay.

so your sayin there is no reason for timed camnet, its just childish naggin of urs because u just dont want it to be like that.

bull shit, u must have a reason u just dont wanna say thats why i supposed u were having trouble with mercs using camnet.

plus its a lame idea anyway, most of PS comunity wants a game that ubi was never able to polish off, a more realistic game.
putting a gay time limit on a device that in real life wouldnt have timelimit (or at least not in seconds or even minutes) is dumb

also the flashlight battery idea i think is lame i mean, how often do u change batteries on ur flashlight, give me a fuckin break or just buy a new fuckin flashlight lol.

spies take too many risks as it is already having to count on top of them all is simply unrealistic, lame, and gay.

You should seriously read the thread before you post some shit. I really don't see how you're going to try and bash me because you don't know how to play the game or what balance means. The idea is "gay" is your justification. Really intellectual input from someone who doesn't have a clue as to what he is talking about. Don't flame because you have no real valid input. If you have nothing useful to say, then shut your hole. We don't need the amateur input in this manner. That shit can stay with Ubisoft. k thks bai

P.S. I didn't say shit about battery's in a flashlight. You're obviously just proving why some people should just stay quiet.

I don't have to touch on anything really since Spekkio has some actual knowledge of whats he's talking about. Oh shit, Rambo knows some shit too...oh shit, Snakebit too. As for the Roberto character, please....

I can respect some valid input, but when something is "gay"...you're not really worth the forum's time. Realism isn't what you're always going for. If you want to stay on the realistic motive....a wireless connection to several cameras implemented throughout a building...oh, and its on your arm. Yea...really realistic. And you're saying that shit would just work all of the time? Nothing to charge up ever. At all. HENCE THE BALANCE of it just recharging on its own while you're not looking at it. Kind of like rebooting.

but it could also trigger hacking alerts at random times if placed next to a hacking panel =)

see rambo is helpin me here, thats what i meant :P


my idea to fix when mercs put their back to the walls is the following:
"maybe we should make a camnet that is like virtual reality to the merc, where if he wants to turn the camera he has to turn his whole body, not just press a button that way, the merc wont be able to put his back to the wall with camnet to save his ass."

hope you get my idea, plz let me know what you think for that fix i came up with, if u have a better idea that is not a time limit plz post!  reply

While I don't think the idea is "gay"...it does has its perks. Like removing the back-to-wall. If you want your realism....well, not even close. Camnet was fine with the fix of no visions. Its still too powerful because it can be camped with in areas that spies might not be able to access. Unfortunately....the camnet is an eye in the sky....not sitting on the floor. It takes a simple control to move it left or right. Also, if the camera is on the mercs wrist, why would he have to turn his entire body to view areas of a room? Camnet doesn't need a fix in aspect of its viewing. It needs a fix as to how long it can be used. NOTHING lasts forever. For balancing purposes, a powered camnet that has energy drain seems very fitting if you want a proper fix of an overpowering tool.