Concepts that look cool.

[Overstatement]

I don't get where all this discussion came from. Originally, I just thought that it would be a cool effect to have with the unintentional effect of helping out noobs. Now, seems like people want the ability to turn it off. Why? How can "clutter up" the screen when it doesn't block or interfere with any other element? Is it because you guys don't want or care about better graphics? Worried it will screw with gameplay? If this is the case, what the hell are we doing waiting for UT3 to come out when we don't have the requirement to do anything close to this? We could have already done a lot of work with an opened-sourced engine and could be already arguing about how to change OUR version of motion tracking instead of CT's motion tracking.

Anyways, new effect. You see a spy, you throw a nade and nade goes boom. It leaves the floors and walls chared and smoking. For the 10-30 seconds, the blackness expands up the walls (smouldering) like a cigarette burning closer to the end. Got the red border and everything. It expands at different rates depending on material (wood burns faster) eventally stopping, becoming a permanent burn on the map.

[Gawain]

i love special effects and athmospheric lightning :D
but referring to the indicators: sc is a game where you actually have to think. a good tutorial and some ingame messages like "whatch out, you are making too much noise" for the first hours of gameplay would do the job.

[LiVe.To.Di3]

i love special effects and athmospheric lightning :D
but referring to the indicators: sc is a game where you actually have to think. a good tutorial and some ingame messages like "whatch out, you are making too much noise" for the first hours of gameplay would do the job.

yea i guess but eventually i would get so mad at whoever was telling me watch out!!! i would just dislike the game lol.

[Spekkio]

The tutorial is long?

It takes fucking 5 minutes to explain what the sound detector does and how each vision mode works. Throw in a little "grab the merc" mini-game in the tutorial so you get rid of the "gmo how do i grab?!!!one" questions. The equipment you can figure out by fucking around with it. And that's really all there really is to it. The rest is just practice and getting better yourself.

Seriously, a good tutorial would take no longer than 5 minutes to complete on each side (from a player standpoint). For mercs you have a little explanation of the sound detector, vision modes, basic controls and equipment. Then have a couple of mini games of "find the spy" using the above.

For spies have a little obstacle course to go through ala SC1 where you have to not make any noise and not trip any passive defenses. If you do, you start over. Then an explanation of the 3 different kinds of objectives and how to accomplish them. Then at the end you have to grab a merc and snap his neck.

Ohhh, so hard and long.

I don't get where all this discussion came from. Originally, I just thought that it would be a cool effect to have with the unintentional effect of helping out noobs. Now, seems like people want the ability to turn it off. Why? How can "clutter up" the screen when it doesn't block or interfere with any other element? Is it because you guys don't want or care about better graphics? Worried it will screw with gameplay? If this is the case, what the hell are we doing waiting for UT3 to come out when we don't have the requirement to do anything close to this? We could have already done a lot of work with an opened-sourced engine and could be already arguing about how to change OUR version of motion tracking instead of CT's motion tracking.

Because I like my screen to be as empty as possible. If something is redundant or unnecessary, I don't want it to be there. This is especially because it could be blocking something more important, like a mine in the distance that I might see but no some fucking idiotic waves are appearing near my feet because I'm not crouching so I can't see it. Then I blow myself up and get pissed off because I know that I'm making noise I don't need some fucking indicator on screen to tell me so, and that stupid shit got me killed.

Also, someone mentioned voiceovers....no and NO. Not unless I can turn them off. I HATE voiceovers. I know I got a headshot because my enemy is dead, I don't need some corny assed repetative "HEADSHOT" thing everytime I do. Oh, and the whole "watch out the enemy is coming" takes AWAY the thinking part of the game. You just have the computer tell you what's happening, you no longer have to think about it.

The grenade idea is a good one, but I assume the graphics are going to get a facelift with the new engine. I'm talking about needless special effects, not cool special effects that would reflect what would happen if something actually blew up.

[LiVe.To.Di3]

The tutorial is long?

It takes fucking 5 minutes to explain what the sound detector does and how each vision mode works. Throw in a little "grab the merc" mini-game in the tutorial so you get rid of the "gmo how do i grab?!!!one" questions. The equipment you can figure out by fucking around with it. And that's really all there really is to it. The rest is just practice and getting better yourself.

Seriously, a good tutorial would take no longer than 5 minutes to complete on each side (from a player standpoint). For mercs you have a little explanation of the sound detector, vision modes, basic controls and equipment. Then have a couple of mini games of "find the spy" using the above.

For spies have a little obstacle course to go through ala SC1 where you have to not make any noise and not trip any passive defenses. If you do, you start over. Then an explanation of the 3 different kinds of objectives and how to accomplish them. Then at the end you have to grab a merc and snap his neck.

Ohhh, so hard and long.

I don't get where all this discussion came from. Originally, I just thought that it would be a cool effect to have with the unintentional effect of helping out noobs. Now, seems like people want the ability to turn it off. Why? How can "clutter up" the screen when it doesn't block or interfere with any other element? Is it because you guys don't want or care about better graphics? Worried it will screw with gameplay? If this is the case, what the hell are we doing waiting for UT3 to come out when we don't have the requirement to do anything close to this? We could have already done a lot of work with an opened-sourced engine and could be already arguing about how to change OUR version of motion tracking instead of CT's motion tracking.

Because I like my screen to be as empty as possible. If something is redundant or unnecessary, I don't want it to be there. This is especially because it could be blocking something more important, like a mine in the distance that I might see but no some fucking idiotic waves are appearing near my feet because I'm not crouching so I can't see it. Then I blow myself up and get pissed off because I know that I'm making noise I don't need some fucking indicator on screen to tell me so, and that stupid shit got me killed.

Also, someone mentioned voiceovers....no and NO. Not unless I can turn them off. I HATE voiceovers. I know I got a headshot because my enemy is dead, I don't need some corny assed repetative "HEADSHOT" thing everytime I do. Oh, and the whole "watch out the enemy is coming" takes AWAY the thinking part of the game. You just have the computer tell you what's happening, you no longer have to think about it.

The grenade idea is a good one, but I assume the graphics are going to get a facelift with the new engine. I'm talking about needless special effects, not cool special effects that would reflect what would happen if something actually blew up.

hell ya spekk i agree totally but when u get a headshot it would be cool if it said heashot:D. Give it a try its not like the enemy is coming bs. As long as sniping isnt like in da... which is the most shitty shit lol i have ever seen in my life.. only way to get a hs in da is if a noob is standing somewhere hacking and u get out your gun and snipe at his head.

I would not mind something indicating if i made noise or something else like that. As long as the indicator is somewhere where it does not block anything in the game. Maybe at the top corner or something like that. Or on the spies back the small color changes if you made noise etc.

[Daybreak]

I think there's a lot of over thinking going on here. As I recall, there's a slight beep or tick noise that occurs when the spy makes noise. UBI thought of that, just not many know. I'm pretty sure the disk glows when you move too fast, which indicates you're on radar.
Noobs, are going to be noobs. We could make the most spectacular tutorial, yet we can't take into account stupidity. That's wasting our time. Give them the basic information, let them know what things do what. That's it. They don't need anything else. If they can't start thinking for themselves, they aren't going to do well at all in the game. There's nothing we can do, when the noob thinks the best strategy is to sit in the vent. We gonna have a voice over "Hey spy, don't sit in the vent. Head to an objective." Oh, wait. Ubi does that with little pop ups every now and again reminding us of our objectives.
We can't cater to stupidity. Teach them the basics, and hope for the best.

An idea would be to put little hints during the loading screens. Like, "Taking out your weapon pings the Mercs sound detector. Hold E to take it out without ping. watch out for the audible noise, it can't be masked." or "Smoke screened? use a different vision to see through the smoke. Throw on the gas mask to be safe"
Random little blurbs that appear during the loading screen would go a long long way, and reduce any of this pointless clutter.

[LiVe.To.Di3]

I think there's a lot of over thinking going on here. As I recall, there's a slight beep or tick noise that occurs when the spy makes noise. UBI thought of that, just not many know. I'm pretty sure the disk glows when you move too fast, which indicates you're on radar.
Noobs, are going to be noobs. We could make the most spectacular tutorial, yet we can't take into account stupidity. That's wasting our time. Give them the basic information, let them know what things do what. That's it. They don't need anything else. If they can't start thinking for themselves, they aren't going to do well at all in the game. There's nothing we can do, when the noob thinks the best strategy is to sit in the vent. We gonna have a voice over "Hey spy, don't sit in the vent. Head to an objective." Oh, wait. Ubi does that with little pop ups every now and again reminding us of our objectives.
We can't cater to stupidity. Teach them the basics, and hope for the best.

An idea would be to put little hints during the loading screens. Like, "Taking out your weapon pings the Mercs sound detector. Hold E to take it out without ping. watch out for the audible noise, it can't be masked." or "Smoke screened? use a different vision to see through the smoke. Throw on the gas mask to be safe"
Random little blurbs that appear during the loading screen would go a long long way, and reduce any of this pointless clutter.

now thats something i can agree with.

[Gawain]

me2

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

I agree with that, but we still would need some vets to teach noobs - when you are taught by somebody you learn easier, and a vet can explain better the game mechanics

[Gawain]

this is a very annoying and ungraceful job, but if every vet tries to teach half an hour per week, a lot is done.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

this is a very annoying and ungraceful job, but if every vet tries to teach half an hour per week, a lot is done.

Thats what i mean - you can spend half an hour talking to a n00b, don't you?

[Gawain]

i'm sure it's great training for rl ^^

[InvisibleMan999]

Noobs, are going to be noobs. We could make the most spectacular tutorial, yet we can't take into account stupidity. That's wasting our time. Give them the basic information, let them know what things do what. That's it. They don't need anything else. If they can't start thinking for themselves, they aren't going to do well at all in the game. There's nothing we can do, when the noob thinks the best strategy is to sit in the vent. We gonna have a voice over "Hey spy, don't sit in the vent. Head to an objective." Oh, wait. Ubi does that with little pop ups every now and again reminding us of our objectives.
We can't cater to stupidity. Teach them the basics, and hope for the best.

Well, tactics are something we can't adequately teach them. Let them discover those for themselves. However, there shouldn't be any hidden mechanics. Every game mechanic should be relatively obvious.

Newbies need to understand what's making sound and what isn't. If we accomplish that with a SP style sound meter, or with some graphical effect, like sound waves, either way, it's fine. As long as they understand how the basic game works, so they have the knowledge to think up strategies.

Yeah, newbies are always going to be hiding in vents, or trying dumb FPS style rushes early on. But at the very least they realize that by running around they're letting the merc know what their position is. We can't make newbies into pros, but at the very least, we can show them what everything does. It's pretty sad when you're explaining how to do a coop move in game to your partner.

The tutorial is long?

It takes fucking 5 minutes to explain what the sound detector does and how each vision mode works. Throw in a little "grab the merc" mini-game in the tutorial so you get rid of the "gmo how do i grab?!!!one" questions. The equipment you can figure out by fucking around with it. And that's really all there really is to it. The rest is just practice and getting better yourself.

Yeah, it is long. You've got to cover all the following:

-Spy movement (Climbing things, leaping out windows, rolling)
-Stealthy movement
-Completing objectives
-static defenses (cameras, motion sensors and lasers)
-Disarming/detecting mines.
-Performing Coop Moves.
-Grabbing the merc and aggro tactics
-Using spy grenades and the gun launcher
-Using spy bullets
-Using stick cams
-Using camo
-Utilizing heartbeat

That's just the spy side of it, and I probably left some stuff out.

WAAY longer than 5 minutes.

[Overstatement]

Because I like my screen to be as empty as possible. If something is redundant or unnecessary, I don't want it to be there. This is especially because it could be blocking something more important, like a mine in the distance that I might see but no some fucking idiotic waves are appearing near my feet because I'm not crouching so I can't see it. Then I blow myself up and get pissed off because I know that I'm making noise I don't need some fucking indicator on screen to tell me so, and that stupid shit got me killed.

How would a wave from your feet block a mine? And even if they do, surely changing the "material" (see: CSI XRay effect from my post) of the foot when it makes noise won't block anything that wouldn't have been blocked by the foot itself. How do you define "clutter" and why are some effects ok but others aren't?

I think there's a lot of over thinking going on here. As I recall, there's a slight beep or tick noise that occurs when the spy makes noise. UBI thought of that, just not many know. I'm pretty sure the disk glows when you move too fast, which indicates you're on radar.
Noobs, are going to be noobs. We could make the most spectacular tutorial, yet we can't take into account stupidity. That's wasting our time. Give them the basic information, let them know what things do what. That's it. They don't need anything else. If they can't start thinking for themselves, they aren't going to do well at all in the game. There's nothing we can do, when the noob thinks the best strategy is to sit in the vent. We gonna have a voice over "Hey spy, don't sit in the vent. Head to an objective." Oh, wait. Ubi does that with little pop ups every now and again reminding us of our objectives.
We can't cater to stupidity. Teach them the basics, and hope for the best.

Yes, it's very agreeable but not really what I'm talking about. Waves at your feet is not to get spies out of a vent. I'm trying to deal with ignorance, not stupidity and I'm sure not trying to tell them how to play.

[Gawain]

plz no ridiculous unrealistic effects for indicators. raising dust etc is ok, but not this sound wave shit...