i am an atheist

[Westfall]

Claiming that all  christians,  or catholic priests are evil  IS a generalisation and would certainly be false.

These are all bundled up into the Catholic church. Therefore, saying that the Catholic church is evil is justifying that all that are involved are evil....which would be a generalization.

That's not that hard... Inquisition comes to mind.

or everything any church has been about for the past...oh I don't know....since the beginning of church. It's a selfish ploy at obtaining power through the eyes of this invisible man I created.

I don't think we could ever consciously understand what life is all about. Only thing you can do is play it out and enjoy what you have.

[Kodadog]

That's not that hard... Inquisition comes to mind.

or everything any church has been about for the past...oh I don't know....since the beginning of church. It's a selfish ploy at obtaining power through the eyes of this invisible man I created.

I don't think we could ever consciously understand what life is all about. Only thing you can do is play it out and enjoy what you have.

Smartest idea I've heard you say, Westfall. But sadly, it seems to conclude the thread.

Whether you believe in predestination, freewill, atheism, or anything else, it makes more sense to "play it out."

Agreed.

[Gui Brazil]

I don't think we could ever consciously understand what life is all about. Only thing you can do is play it out and enjoy what you have.

[neth]

That's not that hard... Inquisition comes to mind.

The Catholic church has said many times that they regret what was done by the inqusition, they are sorry about it etc. It seems to be an easy example of how church is evil but it was about 300 years ago and if people remember things like this and are unable to forgive them, how can they for example not hate all German nation for what was done during the war. Thing is, many people want to remember only things that are suitable with their outlook.

You say that Church is evil because they did bad things hundreds of years ago ? Hell, I say citizens of Holland and Austria should die because many of their ancestors collaborated with Hitler and killed  hundred of thousands of jews. I bet people in Holland don't talk much about how eager some of them were to join the SS troops, hmm ?

Obviously you can't blame today's people for what was done so much time ago as well as you can't blame today's church for what was done even earlier.

More examples of how evil the church is, please.

[Kodadog]

Why?

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

God kills kittens when people ask stupid questions => Christians are evil??

[frvge]

More examples?

Basically banning condoms in HIV-infected African countries.

[goodkebab]

Westfall,  the Catholic Church is an institution just as any government is.  Criticizing a government is not criticizing the citizens.


About the Church:

Just recently,  it was proven the Church was actively covering up  Priest pedophiles.  On top of that,  the Pope said it was an American thing,  when i have friends and family which were raised in european catholic schools that were molested or witnessed molestation by Priests.  The differance between europe and USA is that europe is predominantly catholic,  so attacking the church is far more difficult.  This has been going on for hundreds of years.


There is more info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Catholic_Church

but there is lot more then that -namely the involvements in various Wars.


Here is one about how the wartime Pope was supportive of Hitler.
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/99oct/9910pope.htm

[neth]

@ KEBAB

Just recently,  it was proven the Church was actively covering up  Priest pedophiles.

It is not an institutional problem but a problem of only a few people. Even if some of bishops were covering up these cases you can't say church is responsible for it as an institution because when you have as huge organisation as you have here you can't expect every single member of it to be saint.

the Catholic Church is an institution just as any government is.

It is an institution but not like any other government. They care mainly about the moral side of life, so they shouldn't be treated like ordinary governments.


@ FRVGE

Basically banning condoms in HIV-infected African countries.

Answering such statements has no point because You, as an atheist, have different moral outlook and things you consider to be evil, may be considered good by me. That's why I can mainly discuss about accusations with Catholics here, cause I generally know what their moral values are. I still respect your point of view, though.

[frvge]

You think not helping to cure one of the most deadly viruses in the world is not evil? IMO, it's close to giving orders for mass-murder. And I don't know of any morality that would say that's good.

Not using condoms is catholically acceptible, if everything is fine with the health-care system and there are plenty of alternatives that work. In Africa, that situation unfortunately does not exist, so the rules for the Western world shouldn't apply to Africa.

[Westfall]

Westfall,  the Catholic Church is an institution just as any government is.  Criticizing a government is not criticizing the citizens.

Funny that to this day there still has been no separation of church and state. Also, government is not belief or faith system. Pending the types of government, people are selected by the people or they gain power through their bloodline. Popes get appointed by a group of people too, but that is to find the leader who interprets what god is saying to us. Let's remember that church and state are supposed to be treated as 2 separate things now.

It is not an institutional problem but a problem of only a few people.

Seemed like a nice chunk more than a few people who were molesting little boys. But yea, they should be telling you the word of god.

It is an institution but not like any other government. They care mainly about the moral side of life, so they shouldn't be treated like ordinary governments.

they shouldn't be treated like government at all...what is discussed in the church should have NO effect on how the government is run.

Answering such statements has no point because You, as an atheist, have different moral outlook and things you consider to be evil, may be considered good by me.

So you're for the idea of no conception to fight disease? Because a book written by some guys should interpret your life for you? I hope you beat your women them and make them your slaves. OH OH, and when you have children, if one is a girl you can offer her to some of your guests because it was hospitable. But I, a non-athiest and non-jesus lover, must lack in my moral values.

I'm not trying to be rude, just showing you that things can get twisted on both sides.

Do any of you guys think church will fizzle out?

[goodkebab]

Neth,  I beg to differ that that pedophilia in the church is only with a "few people" when there are hundreds of victims just in the America cases,  and hundreds more if you consider globally....without mentioning the hundreds of years this has been going on.  

That is reason enough to hold the church responsible, and should be good enough to condemn and to question other values of the church.

[goodkebab]

Sure Church and State are supposed to be seperate,  but it does not remove the influence of church over state, or a devout and religious head of state.

When I was saying that the Church is like any other government,  i was saying this merely to point out that criticizing the church is not stereotyping the millions of people that follow the church,  just as criticizing a governement,  is not criticizing the citizens.

Followers of a religion vary greatly in how serious they take their religion,  and how much they let their religion control their life as opposed to guide their life.

But i dont see the point in holding back on judging anyone or institution that presumes to take moral athourity. 

[Spekkio]

I think this thread deserves a paraphrase of some of the lines in a short story my good friend wrote in 8th grade (circa 1997):

"Dennis Rodman is God.

Dennis Rodman cross-dresses because God has no real gender.

Why do you think Rodman is the all-time rebound and defensive leader? That's because no one can match God's awesome powers.

Do you think it's a coincidence that both the Earth and a Basketball are round?

We all know that God likes to test people. Well, Dennis Rodman routinely talks trash on the courts, and even kicked a camera man in the nuts. He is always trying to test people."

Believe it.

But i dont see the point in holding back on judging anyone or institution that presumes to take moral athourity.

When I took sociology in college, the going belief among them was that church was created solely to exercise moral authority beyond the law. Failing that, we have mental health institutions.

[frvge]

Where can I donate money for Dennis Rodman?

After all, all all-powerful (lots of all, lolz) gods need money to survive, and followers.