Tips on making a map.

[Snakebit.]

Steel Squat on the other hand just plays perfectly with the shutter hacking, darkness and all that stuff. And same does Mount Hospital with it's seperation of mercs and dark corners.

Except you don't even need to use those shadows...just shock and run around, tapping each objective for 2-3 seconds before running elsewhere. There's literally nothing to stop you since chaff goes through walls.

And yea, Polar Base is the same thing, except it's bugged to hell. I dunno how anyone can play that map in its current state.

@Lennard: Yes, those are all host advantages. There's even more, but I haven't played in a while and those were the first few to come to mind.

Polar base has 2 discs + 1 bomb +2 hacking objectives which ARE guarded by lasers and can be mined heavily.

Steal squat is 5 hacking nds + 1 disc . You can just run around steal taz hacking everything . You can't do that so much at polar.

I am fine with polar bugs , if you don't like them that much play ump polar base but its harder , there are not healthpacks in few places which is annoying sometimes.

[YaYz0r]

Exactly. Mercs are always under pressure in Steel Squat, cause it's hard to know where the spies will strike the next time if they're stealthy - that makes it a fun map to play. And well, there may be a lot of tazing and stuff if you play it the aggro way, but I don't think it's much worse than on Polar Base. Atleast you're not forced to play like that in Steel Squat - there's always a lot of places to hide and escape.

And removing health packs in the UMP version of Polar Base was just a big mistake, yeah, making the map even more imbalanced. Shame on you, Zedblade.

[Snakebit.]

Exactly. Mercs are always under pressure in Steel Squat, cause it's hard to know where the spies will strike the next time if they're stealthy - that makes it a fun map to play. And well, there may be a lot of tazing and stuff if you play it the aggro way, but I don't think it's much worse than on Polar Base. Atleast you're not forced to play like that in Steel Squat - there's always a lot of places to hide and escape.

And removing health packs in the UMP version of Polar Base was just a big mistake, yeah, making the map even more imbalanced. Shame on you, Zedblade.

The health pack thing is just a matter of perspective. I don't think there are to many healthpacks on that map but some did so they removed them in ump.

[YaYz0r]

I guess so, though I haven't heard a lot of positive response about it from other CT players.

[Spekkio]

Polar base has 2 discs + 1 bomb +2 hacking objectives which ARE guarded by lasers and can be mined heavily.

Uhh...the lasers don't lock the objectives that they guard, so they're useless. Also, 1-2 chaff takes care of all mines, since the objectives are in tight locations ala Hospital.

The only thing that makes Polar harder than Hospital is that there's only one floor with much less cover, so the mercs can team up on people more easily.

Exactly. Mercs are always under pressure in Steel Squat, cause it's hard to know where the spies will strike the next time if they're stealthy - that makes it a fun map to play.

Yea, and playing River Mall without camnet and resisting the temptation to railcamp snipe in the beginning makes that a fun map to play. The only problem is that it requires the team to handicap itself in order for the map to be fun or balanced, which is pretty much what you're saying about Steel Squat.

[Snakebit.]

Polar base has 2 discs + 1 bomb +2 hacking objectives which ARE guarded by lasers and can be mined heavily.

Uhh...the lasers don't lock the objectives that they guard, so they're useless. Also, 1-2 chaff takes care of all mines, since the objectives are in tight locations ala Hospital.

The only thing that makes Polar harder than Hospital is that there's only one floor with much less cover, so the mercs can team up on people more easily.

Exactly. Mercs are always under pressure in Steel Squat, cause it's hard to know where the spies will strike the next time if they're stealthy - that makes it a fun map to play.

Yea, and playing River Mall without camnet and resisting the temptation to railcamp snipe in the beginning makes that a fun map to play. The only problem is that it requires the team to handicap itself in order for the map to be fun or balanced, which is pretty much what you're saying about Steel Squat.

Spekkio there are all good tactics but it doesn't mean that you can't do anything against them. Taz - run . Go down together . Punch - taz . Flash , smoke . etc. You have equipment for that. May be i am not understanding what you mean by 'rail camp' . Perhaps on stairs infront of spy spawn ? If yes than its not that a big of a problem.


I think your opinion on polar base is a bit wrong. Yes you can team up together vs 2 spies on that map but thats not the main difference from mount. The main difference is probably that you can cover almost all nds in there with nades. You can nade container from bombs (Yes you can ) , you can nade hangar from disc house well a bit farther from it , you can nade hangar from up or snipe from up , you can  stop house disc taking by nades , you can stop tower runers by nades , you can stop bomb by nades.

Nade are not that much useful on mount. Only probably 202<-->212 nades and may be some outside nades.

[YaYz0r]

Polar base has 2 discs + 1 bomb +2 hacking objectives which ARE guarded by lasers and can be mined heavily.

Uhh...the lasers don't lock the objectives that they guard, so they're useless. Also, 1-2 chaff takes care of all mines, since the objectives are in tight locations ala Hospital.

The only thing that makes Polar harder than Hospital is that there's only one floor with much less cover, so the mercs can team up on people more easily.

Exactly. Mercs are always under pressure in Steel Squat, cause it's hard to know where the spies will strike the next time if they're stealthy - that makes it a fun map to play.

Yea, and playing River Mall without camnet and resisting the temptation to railcamp snipe in the beginning makes that a fun map to play. The only problem is that it requires the team to handicap itself in order for the map to be fun or balanced, which is pretty much what you're saying about Steel Squat.

It's only the house disc lasers that are bugged - they lock the NDs insted. And I don't see where I talk about handicap on purpose in Steel Squat?

I think your opinion on polar base is a bit wrong. Yes you can team up together vs 2 spies on that map but thats not the main difference from mount. The main difference is probably that you can cover almost all nds in there with nades. You can nade container from bombs (Yes you can ) , you can nade hangar from disc house well a bit farther from it , you can nade hangar from up or snipe from up , you can  stop house disc taking by nades , you can stop tower runers by nades , you can stop bomb by nades.

Nade are not that much useful on mount. Only probably 202<-->212 nades and may be some outside nades.

There we go - you just gave one of the reasons why Polar Base is so unbalanced. And why all the hate on Mount Hospital? - it's a really good map, IMO.

[Spekkio]

And I don't see where I talk about handicap on purpose in Steel Squat?

The handicap is that given the spy's attributes vs. the merc's attributes, number of objectives, and lack of security, the best way to play spy is to exploit their speed, and the fact that it's impossible for the mercs to adequately cover all objectives. Just spend the first 2 min or so getting them to waste all their frags. When you decide to slow it up and hide in the shadows, you give the mercs to set up additional defenses and remove the speed advantage.

This could be said of a lot of maps -- CT maps depend heavily on the spy's initial rush. However, Squat is still friendly to spies even when that fails.

And why all the hate on Mount Hospital? - it's a really good map, IMO.

I have more < 2:00-3:00 wins as spy and losses as merc on that map against good teams than any other. That should tell you something.

[Snakebit.]

And I don't see where I talk about handicap on purpose in Steel Squat?

The handicap is that given the spy's attributes vs. the merc's attributes, number of objectives, and lack of security, the best way to play spy is to exploit their speed, and the fact that it's impossible for the mercs to adequately cover all objectives. Just spend the first 2 min or so getting them to waste all their frags. When you decide to slow it up and hide in the shadows, you give the mercs to set up additional defenses and remove the speed advantage.

This could be said of a lot of maps -- CT maps depend heavily on the spy's initial rush. However, Squat is still friendly to spies even when that fails.

And why all the hate on Mount Hospital? - it's a really good map, IMO.

I have more < 2:00-3:00 wins as spy and losses as merc on that map against good teams than any other. That should tell you something.

As you said spekkio a lot of maps are based on initial rush. So is mount hospital. But i would like to make something clear. By initial rush i don't mean spy rush but more the time the mercs need to 'turtle in' . Set defences as fast as possible. Same goes for mount hospital. To prevent the rush you need to set the defences as fast as possible + be able to anticipate what your enemies will do. Rush usually means a lot of running so its not hard to anticipate but its hard to turtle in at the same time and it is a SKILL to do those things together. I with solidus haven't lost that map a lot , heck we didn't usually loose at that map at all because we knew how to turtle in fast at start , it very deppends on the spawn points , you don't have time to exchange favorite places on that map with your teammate like on some other maps like museum / club / orph etc. You just need to go where you need to go to mine everything fast .

Choke mines are important on rush maps. On aggro maps placing mines near objectives is usually not the wisest thing to but mining run ways is usually a very good idea . Museum dore mines (between spawn and cafe) , storage mines or exo/mono corridor mines. + The quality of turtling in also counts, you need to know where to place mines , not just place them randomly . Sometimes stupid mines ARE good mines but usually they are NOT. You could also use 2+1 minning , you plant 2 mines and save 1 because you know that he will run somewhere again and will think there is no mine. A laser mine is better or poison in this situation or a 'bug' proxy mines.

[ray mysertio]

A major reason we designed Lakehouse around clubhouse was that we needed to take a proven map layout  that works so that we could with confidence create a balanced map.  It evolved from there of course and is definately new for the players,  but as devolopers, we need to strictly control ourselves with proven layouts so that we do not screw things up and spend to much time trying to balance things.

No need to try and re-invent the wheel here

i hate to break it to you goodkebab, gamers are more and more seeing that developers are cutting back on quality just to squeeze 30-40-50% out of them, and moe and more theyre realizing that it happens to ALOT of people... this means that the future of gaming- relevant to you because youe heading into the game-studio direction... i will laugh my ass off when all these bitch companies lose record sales due to the fact that they just plain suck.

shows how far these devs are willing to go to give paying future customers what they aparantly NEED for god's sakes let versus die.

[goodkebab]

Games Developers are business just like anything,  if their games cannot make money for the studio then they will be discontinued.

The general rule for this is:  quantity, quality, and cost.   You can only choose 2 when developing the game.


There only a few studios that can actually pay 100-200 people to work on a game for 4 years to guarrantee the quality and amount of content.


The PS dev team does not have any money, so we canot pay for the talent needed to get the quality you all want.  Believe it or not,  there is a great deal of artistic skill involved in making a great game,  and you cant dream it up from thin air because the community says it needs to be better.

[AgentX_003]

how about you leave this forum for good and stop criticising it , yes uve drove that nail into the ground as far as it can go to say "Hey guys my name is Dimmykronz I hate ur mod im a jealous piece of shit because  I don't have talent so I think will keep harrassing the team till they give in and accept me but can't get it through my head that my attitude is the problem".

[LennardF1989]

A major reason we designed Lakehouse around clubhouse was that we needed to take a proven map layout  that works so that we could with confidence create a balanced map.  It evolved from there of course and is definately new for the players,  but as devolopers, we need to strictly control ourselves with proven layouts so that we do not screw things up and spend to much time trying to balance things.

No need to try and re-invent the wheel here

i hate to break it to you goodkebab, gamers are more and more seeing that developers are cutting back on quality just to squeeze 30-40-50% out of them, and moe and more theyre realizing that it happens to ALOT of people... this means that the future of gaming- relevant to you because youe heading into the game-studio direction... i will laugh my ass off when all these bitch companies lose record sales due to the fact that they just plain suck.

shows how far these devs are willing to go to give paying future customers what they aparantly NEED for god's sakes let versus die.

how about you leave this forum for good and stop criticising it , yes uve drove that nail into the ground as far as it can go to say "Hey guys my name is Dimmykronz I hate ur mod im a jealous piece of shit because  I don't have talent so I think will keep harrassing the team till they give in and accept me but can't get it through my head that my attitude is the problem".

Instead, could you just stop quoting and replying to him?