Merc Aiming Sensitivity

[Spekkio]

Limiting turn speed is a bad idea.

However, I do think that quick sniping will need a looking at. I know that it's a difficult maneuver to accomplish, but good players were able to do it consistently enough that it borked the game balance. You have to balance the game assuming everyone plays perfectly. Reducing the transition speed by 25-50% and reducing the sniping ROF 25-50% will probably be in order.

[Snakebit.]

Spekkio , the sniping was perfect in ct . If you make it even MORE slower it would be useless . Besides there are ways to countering sniping like throwing flash or tazing .

Doing headshots a lot takes skill and should not be punishable . It is the same as in ct , people were good at tazing and what they did ? Took out the tazer in da . People were bad at looking for their neck and what they did ? They added sensor ....

If someone is good at something it doesn't mean that it should be changed so you could have an edge over that person because his good side was nerfed .

The key to a good balanced game , is not to make it as stupid and as easy as possible so the medium can be the best . But to make it complicated to an extent so individuals will have their good and bad points.

[Spekkio]

There is very little a spy can do against someone who is proficient at quick sniping, regardless of skill level. I'm talking about people who are able to aim with the reticle and get a headshot within the next second because you could shoot during the transition and it counted as a sniper shot. There were quite a lot of people capable of doing this with a good success rate during CT's peak popularity, including Mr.Mic.  It's not like it's an overtly difficult skill to learn considering the large popularity of PC FPS games. The main issue is the speed which the merc can transition to snipe mode and fire a shot, which is faster than a spy can draw his sticky shocker or throw a flash grenade...the generous ROF for a sniper rifle that also has a good full-auto and the fact that it cancels out flash (a trait I'm assuming will go away, but the ROF is still slightly too high) makes it easy for them to re-target quickly.

I disagree that sniping would become useless. The transition was slower in PT and people still sniped.

And don't come back with "lol don't be seen by merc11!" because you know as well as I do that you're going to have to KO or aggro the merc in some way to accomplish your goals on most of the maps.

The only two options are to nerf quick sniping, or make the game so that the spies don't have to encounter mercs to win. Since you agree with me that the latter would just make for boring gameplay, nerf the sniping. You could do it with ROF or damage, but I think ROF is the better choice.

[Snakebit.]

Spekkio , i knew what you have been talking about but it takes a ) skill to do it b ) it is counterable c ) there are ways to dodge that .

I haven't played a game in pt/ct when i died all 4/5 times with 4/5 instant headshots . At max i rememmber it was 2 may be 3 but it takes luck ......

Not encoutering merc the maximum you can is one the key points of ct . You don't encouter then unless you totally need that but total stealth should not be possible because they game would be boring shit if it was so .

The ct sniping was fine . Besides its pretty hard to pull it off close range.... when someone is not trying to taz or cam .... The most time people die from snipe is either because they cam or taz as spy .

[Spekkio]

I haven't played a game in pt when i died all 4/5 times with 4/5 instant headshots . At max i rememmber it was 2 may be 3 but it takes luck

You can't do it in PT, you can only do it in CT. And 2-3 kills is sufficient to drastically reduce the spy's chances of winning.

Luck? Maybe sometimes, but I know quite a few people who had the skill of being able to do it.

The fact that it takes skill is irrelevant. If I found some secret move that took skill to pull off, but would guaruntee me a win if I did it, then I'd master that skill and do it everytime. Like I said, you have to balance the game at the top level. That doesn't mean rewarding people with free kills because they can aim quickly with a mouse.

How is it counterable? If the merc sees you, you're dead, since like I said he can snipe faster than you can react.

[Snakebit.]

I ment ct sorry .

Being able to do it once in a couple of games is one thing . Being able to do it 2 times in a row is luck .

Spies can throw flash can't they . Spies are 3rd person so ambush the merc , don't let the merc ambush you.

[Spekkio]

I ment ct sorry .

Being able to do it once in a couple of games is one thing . Being able to do it 2 times in a row is luck .

I disagree, and in a game that is popular, you're going to get more than a few teenagers with lots of free time who can pull this off at least 50% of the time, maybe more.

Maybe you still have the huge ego I remember you having, so anyone who kills you two times in a row that quickly must be one lucky sob.

Spies can throw flash can't they . Spies are 3rd person so ambush the merc , don't let the merc ambush you.

Spies can throw flash, but I reiterate that the quicksnipe is faster than the flash quick-throw. There's also this thing called motion tracking and EMF that prevent flash from working, so they can just quicksnipe again if they missed the first time.

Also, forget ambush and crap. I'm talking about a tactically neutral situation where the spy knows a merc is in a spot, and the merc knows a spy is in a spot. This situation is automatically given to the merc because he can get a headshot faster than the spy can do anything. This is in addition to the tactical advantage the merc gains by not having to go into snipe mode until the very last second, thus increasing his visibility.  In theory you can say just go around, but there are bottlenecks on many maps where you have to infiltrate past the mercs. Of course if you ambush a merc he won't quicksnipe you, but you also won't be able to react if he ambushes you even with a slower snipe transition. There's nothing wrong with that because that's just taking advantage of a tactical advantage.

The ct sniping was fine . Besides its pretty hard to pull it off close range....

Actually, mid-close range is the best place to pull it off because it's easiest to aim accurately with the full auto reticle.

[frvge]

Wasn't one of the problems that you could fire before the scope was zoomed in?

[Spekkio]

Yes, and I said that in my post above. Hence the 25-50% reduction in transition speed suggestion.

Only thing keeping the sniper in check right now is lag, packet loss and otherwise shitty netcode. But back in the day when there were enough people to find a good server, yea... and I wonder why the merc's winrate was in the 80-90% range...

[Snakebit.]

I disagree, and in a game that is popular, you're going to get more than a few teenagers with lots of free time who can pull this off at least 50% of the time, maybe more.

Maybe you still have the huge ego I remember you having, so anyone who kills you two times in a row that quickly must be one lucky sob.

A lot of successful people are arrogant but they are not arrogant  because they are just arrogant they are arrogant because they are successful so ill take that as a compliment .

Spies can throw flash, but I reiterate that the quicksnipe is faster than the flash quick-throw. There's also this thing called motion tracking and EMF that prevent flash from working, so they can just quicksnipe again if they missed the first time.

But i am not sure ....
Also, forget ambush and crap. I'm talking about a tactically neutral situation where the spy knows a merc is in a spot, and the merc knows a spy is in a spot. This situation is automatically given to the merc because he can get a headshot faster than the spy can do anything. This is in addition to the tactical advantage the merc gains by not having to go into snipe mode until the very last second, thus increasing his visibility.  In theory you can say just go around, but there are bottlenecks on many maps where you have to infiltrate past the mercs. Of course if you ambush a merc he won't quicksnipe you, but you also won't be able to react if he ambushes you even with a slower snipe transition. There's nothing wrong with that because that's just taking advantage of a tactical advantage.

You see your assumption starts with that merc knows for sure where spy is . Your are a bad spy if the merc always knows exactly where you are . Even with total Eax you can't tell exactly where the spy is .

Actually, mid-close range is the best place to pull it off because it's easiest to aim accurately with the full auto reticle.

As i said its pretty much based on being static and luck .

Me and solidus won 75% of our spy round . If you remember the tourney it was something like 5-1 or 5-0 against everybody except you if i remember correctly , you were the only one who got 5-2 vs us.

It takes a bit more skill and teamplay though. But it is not impossible .

[Spekkio]

You see your assumption starts with that merc knows for sure where spy is .

He doesn't have to know for sure, he has to have an idea and be facing in the general direction. Not hard when he has his entire FOV at his disposal because he can quick-snipe. If the spy appears on screen, the aim and snipe part takes a second or less.

And of course my assumption starts out like this... it would be silly to call for a nerf without starting with a tactically equal or disadvantageous situation for the merc.

Your are a bad spy if the merc always knows exactly where you are . Even with total Eax you can't tell exactly where the spy is .

Okay, and irrelevant.

Me and solidus won 75% of our spy round . If you remember the tourney it was something like 5-1 or 5-0 against everybody except you if i remember correctly , you were the only one who got 5-2 vs us.

If lochang or I were able to quick-snipe, it'd have been 5-4 :P

[Snakebit.]

Hey spekkio i am not that good of a sniper although i was decent in pt .

And as i said . I rarely had trouble against instant-snipers . Doing it all the time deppends on luck and it is possible to stabily win a lot against very good snipers .

[Savior20061]

What if you the devs just take out firing while in transition. I think that would help.

[frvge]

I'm pretty sure we will. Dont forget we have MR.Mic on the team for balancing that kind of stuff. He'll decide, I think.

[Spekkio]

And as i said . I rarely had trouble against instant-snipers . Doing it all the time deppends on luck and it is possible to stabily win a lot against very good snipers .

Well, it certainly helped that the vast majority of people who could quick snipe consistently were of the "fast twitch" skillset and couldn't think tactically very well, which is a very important skillset for SvM. But that's no justification for its existance.

PS: For the love of god, stop putting spaces before periods. I know you can see how every single other person on this forum types (except for agent, but he's a moron), and I know that your excuse can't be laziness because it takes an extra keystroke to put the space there.

@Savior, That's what I mean when I say to "increase the transition time." It should take 1.25-1.75 sec between pressing the snipe button and being able to shoot, currently it takes < 1 sec.

By the same token, get rid of the spy's sticky shocker auto-aim. You draw your weapon, spy aims it at the center of your screen, whichever way you happen to be looking.