Suggestion Thread

[Cronky]

ion, I used snares extensively in CT and disagree with your assessment of them.

Snares were the only way to mitigate merc EAX in CT; their only hindrance was that the mercs could hear you fire them from quite far away. However, since PS won't have CT's broken sound engine, that problem will fix itself. That change, by itself, is enough to make snares almost perfect.

I do think that "smarter" snares would be helpful -- eg, they make ambient noises that mimic the surface it's placed on, rather than random ones. Also, snares shot on passive equipment should trigger an alarm for the merc, but shouldn't lock the room.

Most people misunderstand the function of alarm snares, and thus find them useless. Snares aren't meant to trick the merc into thinking you're somewhere you're not. They're for masking your movement so that you can move about undetected and quickly.

Your suggestions would make the gadget very overpowered.

This.

Partly because it makes sense

Party because you suggested something New.

:P

[Spekkio]

I didn't suggest anything new; alarm snares already create ambient noises and set off passive defenses in CT. It just doesn't make much sense when a snare makes vent noises on a wooden floor, and it's not very useful to lock objectives on yourself.

[Cronky]

Well then...

Looks like there is only one part that holds true.

[Ion.67]

ion, I used snares extensively in CT and disagree with your assessment of them.

Snares were the only way to mitigate merc EAX in CT; their only hindrance was that the mercs could hear you fire them from quite far away. However, since PS won't have CT's broken sound engine, that problem will fix itself. That change, by itself, is enough to make snares almost perfect. Without EAX, which you claim was broken (which it was) snares will lose usefulness. You won't be heard from impossible distances, which is why you yourself used alarm snares, to cover up the noise. I know that the reticul is a big part, but sound is half the battle.

I do think that "smarter" snares would be helpful -- eg, they make ambient noises that mimic the surface it's placed on, rather than random ones. Also, snares shot on passive equipment should trigger an alarm for the merc, but shouldn't lock the room. Why? If you shoot it, why would you go into that same room?

Most people misunderstand the function of alarm snares, and thus find them useless. Snares aren't meant to trick the merc into thinking you're somewhere you're not. They're for masking your movement so that you can move about undetected and quickly. That is your interpretation. It also was the only usable theory for CT, as they were easy to identify. Without sounding nerdy, I doubt a spy would bring a gadget that makes an unrealistic noise and is purely so he can run around without being heard. I would rather it have options for stealth or aggro style.

With one or two well-placed alarm snares, I never have to worry about crouching to move around. I can then use the spy's faster speed to my advantage, and the mercs will have a harder time knowing where I'm going next to cut me off.

Your suggestions would make the gadget very overpowered. I would like to know how. The active toggle would behave EXACTLY like it does now, while the passive toggle would be for avoiding passive and even active (camnet) defenses. It lacks any offensive ability besides hiding your own noise. It adds options to a gadget that seems to be lacking in the functionality department.

[VaNilla]

I agree with Ion, your ideas are pretty good for the Alarm Snare, they would actually make it worthwhile to take. I'd also say they're pretty pointless in CT anyway, anyone with a blind bit of sense can tell whether the sound being created is from an Alarm Snare or not at the moment, EAX or without.

[Spekkio]

Without EAX, which you claim was broken (which it was) snares will lose usefulness. You won't be heard from impossible distances, which is why you yourself used alarm snares, to cover up the noise. I know that the reticul is a big part, but sound is half the battle.

I disagree. First, fixing EAX isn't going to suddenly rid the game of ambient noise entirely. If they do the sound right, you'll still be able to hear certain things...it's just that you'll have to be the appropriate distance away.

Secondly, time is a large factor in SvM. Allowing the spies to run around without telling the merc "hey, I'm over here!" is a huge advantage.

Why? If you shoot it, why would you go into that same room?

Because mercs will typically ignore anything coming from the snare's direction, since they know it's a snare.

That is your interpretation.

It's not an "interpretation," it's the reality of the situation. A constant reticle ping isn't going to fool anyone into thinking a real spy is somewhere he's not, so it's pretty silly to try to use the gadget in that manner.

I'd also say they're pretty pointless in CT anyway, anyone with a blind bit of sense can tell whether the sound being created is from an Alarm Snare or not at the moment, EAX or without.

Have you not been paying attention to the conversation?

[Ion.67]

I disagree. First, fixing EAX isn't going to suddenly rid the game of ambient noise entirely. If they do the sound right, you'll still be able to hear certain things...it's just that you'll have to be the appropriate distance away.

Secondly, time is a large factor in SvM. Allowing the spies to run around without telling the merc "hey, I'm over here!" is a huge advantage.

It wont rid the game of it, you are right. But when you could hear a spy from across the entire map, sound was an issue. Having realistic sounds will mean not hearing things across the map, and instead hearing sounds that are in a range that could be picked up. Putting in an alarm snare in CT made obnoxious noises that could cover up a lot of sounds and would sometimes mix with real sounds, creating a situation where speakers became useless. In a realistic sound system, only an alarm snare fired in a semi close location compared to the spy will make noise that will cover him up. Meaning, a snare fired across the map will no longer cover the spies movements with sound, only the reticule. That is half of the functionality.

Because mercs will typically ignore anything coming from the snare's direction, since they know it's a snare.

Valid point, but you have said that you wish they made realistic noises. It will be harder to identify as a snare then, and in that case...what do you do?

It's not an "interpretation," it's the reality of the situation. A constant reticle ping isn't going to fool anyone into thinking a real spy is somewhere he's not, so it's pretty silly to try to use the gadget in that manner.

You wish for realistic sounds, so why not realistic pings too? It can easily be randomly generated noises, corresponding to the texture it is placed on. Would that be so bad? It seems as if you played with it as an aggro tool, while I look at it as a passive tool.

[Spekkio]

Randomly generated noises are bad because then the snare loses its ability to function as a mask for your movement. Additionally, it becomes impossible to predict when the snare will ping, thus you don't know how to time your positioning such that it's not in the direction of the random ping.

As for "realistic noises," I don't think you and I are talking about the same thing. I thought you were referring to shooting a snare onto a camera or laser. That can be useful for a multitude of reasons, such as putting a very loud alarm beeping noise in the merc's ears to keep them from hearing you. However, it becomes limited when a snare, for example, shot on a camera in hall B in factory locks two entire rooms full of objectives. Note that the objectives themselves are not in hall B at all; thus one spy would be shooting a snare at the camera to pull a merc away while the other hacks an objective.

My comment about making more realistic noises was when the snare was shot on surfaces, NOT at passive security devices. In those cases, they should make ambient sounds associated with that surface only.

The manual ping could be overpowered because you can have your cake and eat it too. You can easily adjust the snare to either provide cover for moving quickly, or ping every so often to attempt to trick the merc. However, people might still be able to tell a snare from movement, thus we're back to square one anyway.

Finally, being quick and being aggro are two very different things.

[Ion.67]

They may be separate things, but they are closer in relation than being slow and aggro. Basically what you just said is what my idea is for the active toggle. It will ping a lot and be noisy and cover things up. The passive toggle will do the opposite; try and act real, help avoid defenses, and generally try and assist the spy instead of cover him.

[Spekkio]

Your passive toggle is essentially a way for spies to silently take out any security in the map without warning to the mercs. That is completely overpowered. Security is there for a reason to balance the maps, and having a gadget to bypass that check entirely is silly.

So then we're left with the "active" toggle which you can just have be automatic, like it is now.

[Ion.67]

I doubt it will be entirely silent. I am sure there will still be a launch noise. The advantage of this method would be that it will not ping the reticule, and will no display a downed system (smoking cameras). I don't see this as overpowered, mainly because there are only 5 of them and it is a gadget choice (one that I see as being mainly for the purpose of avoiding security and tricking mercs). You COULD use 5 snares to silently (or as silent as you can be) avoid 5 lasers, cameras, motion sensors, or camnets, but then you completely lose all snares and any ability to trick mercs and hide moves. Also, the toggle could affect all snares, which would remove the possibilities of mixing the two toggles and could be used in a sort of an ambush was (putting down two snares in different lasers and toggling the active toggle).

[Spekkio]

I disagree with the concept of allowing a way to disable alarms silently. That's pretty much putting stealth on easy mode.

[I <3 U]

I disagree with the concept of allowing a way to disable alarms silently. That's pretty much putting stealth on easy mode.

you can dive through like all of the lasers in ct anyway and not trigger / ping the riticule, they rarely get shot out, so what's the problem, however disabling cameras silently would make mercs jobs to hard.

[Spekkio]

CT didn't have enough passive security in a lot of maps because of camnet, which was unavoidable.

I never really thought about whether or not spies should always be able to dive through laser defenses. Being able to kinda makes them pointless.

[tigaer]

CT didn't have enough passive security in a lot of maps because of camnet, which was unavoidable.

I never really thought about whether or not spies should always be able to dive through laser defenses. Being able to kinda makes them pointless.

I agree. Map designers need to vary on this subject, being able to dive through every set or lasers is not a good thing and makes them pretty pointless. I know that if I build a map I'm most likely not going to allow diving through my lasers, only in open areas where it'd be very, very dangerous to stop and shoot.