Suggestion Thread

[Ion.67]

No one wants a damn rope in the game. Who the hell would sit and wait for a merc to run by, with a rope clearly visible between both spies (a clear advantage for the merc, knowing both spies are present) just to trip him? That is retarded. No one would even considering doing it if it was in the game. Lowering the rope is the same as having him climb up your feet. Good job.

I don't agree with everything spekkio says. Firstly, I believe that smoke and cams should not be absolutely countered by the mask. He wants it as a mandatory gadget, but then why even take the smokes when the merc can hit a button and be saved? Then again, without the mask you are screwed. Secondly, he wants to spawn with the same amount of ammo as you died with, which I don't agree with. Don't make it sound like I am his fanboy. I just happen to think that every gadget that has come up has sounded absolutely ridiculous.

Work on balancing what is in the game currently. Alarm snares suck ass, tazer went from rocking to suckin dick,  and camnet was pointless and unneeded. Flares shouldn't even be in the game. Coop spots were cool but were designed in a poor manor.

How do I propose we fix this? I don't. I have no clue how to balance any of these things. But I do know that adding in a rope won't fix a damn thing. Could we add in anal beads to balance out camnet camping? Sure we could but it would be pointless. Fix the game before you add to it.

[Cronky]

My comment was made because there are a good portion of people on these boards that like to make up gadget ideas just because they can. Then they'll spend 10 pages defending their dumb ideas because they must be good by virtue of the fact that the person thought of them. Never mind that most of them clearly show no thought into how they'd have ripple effects into other aspects of the game or if they'd even be useful in the context of the game.

Case and point: a rope. Not once was I like "gee, I really wish I could hang a rope down from this ledge!" in CT. It's just not something that would be useful, especially since you can just hang off the ledge and give your partner a leg up.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to see more new stuff implemented into a game, but doing so would probably require redoing the gadgets from the ground up. There just isn't that much room for abilities that weren't already covered that would not be either completely useless or utterly OP.

Threads like this on the Ubi forums are why we have friggin camnet in CT. Some douchebag 10 year old was like "omg, wouldn't it be cool if we could like, look into a network of cams or something" (go ahead, Agent, dig up that old thread) and some idiot Frenchie at Ubi thought that was a good idea.  So now you have a gadget that allows mercs to camp in some safe spot in the map and search for spies without making himself vulnerable. Hooray!

See, the problem I have with that Mindset is it's a "Do or Die" kind of thought process. Take your gadget balance posts. I didn't say, "Obviously the Ammo Crates wont work. The system right now is perfect as is." and left it at that. I asked questions, gave you room to elaborate on your idea with another thought/response. Or just detail your idea MORE. Forums are for discussions, and while denoting an idea because something is wrong with it initially... doesn't mean that it can't turn into something worthwhile.

The Rope idea is a perfect example. Farley went on with it. Got some discussion, now he understands that it wont work the way he planned at first. (Even if he wasn't the original creator of it)

Does that mean that a Rope Idea CAN'T work? No, just that one doesn't. Does that mean that Co-Op gadgets couldn't work? Absolutely not.

The Camnet part of your response just comes off as Personal Opinion. Camnet may not be PERFECT, but it's far from a Horrible idea. I did find it fun to sit on the Cams. I did plant myself in "Safe" spots when using it, but that far from meant that I was completely safe from a Spy Attack. Goes with your same argument before that, "If the person is doing Action A, then he isn't doing Action B".

Action A being looking through Camnet in this example.

Action B being Protecting the Objectives fully.

Keyword about this whole part is that it was FUN. Not everything comes down to technical babble right off the bat. The ideas that I listed above weren't thought completely with the sense that, "Oh this will make the Spies/Mercs OP". Mostly just things I'd LIKE to see... in some way, shape, or form.

[Cronky]

No one wants a damn rope in the game. Who the hell would sit and wait for a merc to run by, with a rope clearly visible between both spies (a clear advantage for the merc, knowing both spies are present) just to trip him? That is retarded. No one would even considering doing it if it was in the game. Lowering the rope is the same as having him climb up your feet. Good job.

I don't agree with everything spekkio says. Firstly, I believe that smoke and cams should not be absolutely countered by the mask. He wants it as a mandatory gadget, but then why even take the smokes when the merc can hit a button and be saved? Then again, without the mask you are screwed. Secondly, he wants to spawn with the same amount of ammo as you died with, which I don't agree with. Don't make it sound like I am his fanboy. I just happen to think that every gadget that has come up has sounded absolutely ridiculous.

Work on balancing what is in the game currently. Alarm snares suck ass, tazer went from rocking to suckin dick,  and camnet was pointless and unneeded. Flares shouldn't even be in the game. Coop spots were cool but were designed in a poor manor.

How do I propose we fix this? I don't. I have no clue how to balance any of these things. But I do know that adding in a rope won't fix a damn thing. Could we add in anal beads to balance out camnet camping? Sure we could but it would be pointless. Fix the game before you add to it.

You just said the exact reason why these posts come up. Why the gadget ideas are more prominent then "Balancing" issues of CT. We don't have control over balancing. We also don't know exactly how PS is going to work in terms of the things we think we know.

All we as community members can do is "Suggest" (Har Har, Topic Name) stuff we'd like to see. A rope would be FUN to use. Is it practical within the gameplay aspect? Not really, but that's why it was mentioned. COULD it be practical? Maybe if it was figured out exactly how a rope could fit in.

Trip Rope would be Fun! Now don't go assuming that the rope is Huge and easy to see. Imagine if Doorways were actually Co-Op spots and the "Rope" was near invisible. Maybe a Wire. You don't have to use it, but then again. You don't HAVE to use anything. A KO time for Merc. Or hell, maybe it makes them unable to move for a few seconds (unlike a KO they could still shoot and turn, just not move).

The ideas proposed here are plausible, but not set in stone. They're up for discussion. Farley has the right idea. Don't assume any of these are a dead set idea.

(Didn't mean to say you agreed with Spekkio 100%. Though I can see how that could be thought. That part was just for the forum in general, in the terms of new/re-vamped ideas. Though if you didn't agree with Spekkio on those points. Why didn't you mention it? Could have led to MORE discussion :))

[frvge]

We value all suggestions. From 100 silly ones, there's about 1 that can be morphed into something that's actually really cool.

[Cronky]

Which is exactly the point I hope I'm trying to convey.

Obviously not EVERYTHING is going to make it in, but if it can be discussed and also refined it would be easier to add at some time. Since the pre-planning/design would already be written out.

Shutting an ideas down from the start keeps them stuck at one spot. Agent wanted to talk about his Door Hacker, I brought it back up (as an example).

...Though It'd be nice if he came in here and actually voiced his opinion about it more (HINT HINT).

My long posts aren't because I'm trying to force an Idea down people's throats, but rather to keep discussion of said idea in play... and it becomes apparent eventually that I talk about a lot of things I don't know legitimately, but mainly that's because my experience with CT/PT was Fun. With a constant partner that had the same mindset. We may have played to win, but it wasn't the only thing on our minds.

(That got sentimental... ;))

[Ion.67]

Gadgets are not supposed to be fun and pointless. The game provides the fun and gadgets aid at winning. Making a useless gadget just because it's cool is a waste.

The good thing about the current gadgets is that we know how they already work, the developers know how they work, and that is key. I could tell you that I think we should have 15 alarm snares are they should be able to be toggled. You know exactly what I mean and can instantly start thinking of the ramifications. When you say make a rope that trips people and can be climbed...well.... why would I ever want to trip someone when I can snap their neck? Why would I want to throw a rope instead of have my buddy climb up me? What balance would this create? Nothing good comes of this.

One suggestion I do have is that the game is set up in a best two of three system. Play as spy, lose, play as merc, win, randomly play as spy or merc. I think that would help a great deal with people whoring the spy and leaving during their merc rounds... Suggestions? Discussion?

[Farley4Fan]

Ion, the rope isn't for tripping mercs.

[Ion.67]

Ion, the rope isn't for tripping mercs.

Sorry sir....

Second, it could be used as a trip rope (I mentioned this in another thread) if both spies grab either end near a door or hallway.

Trip Rope would be Fun! Now don't go assuming that the rope is Huge and easy to see. Imagine if Doorways were actually Co-Op spots and the "Rope" was near invisible. Maybe a Wire. You don't have to use it, but then again. You don't HAVE to use anything. A KO time for Merc. Or hell, maybe it makes them unable to move for a few seconds (unlike a KO they could still shoot and turn, just not move).

I guess I had mistaken the words trip rope for a rope that would trip people.

[Cronky]

Gadgets are not supposed to be fun and pointless. The game provides the fun and gadgets aid at winning. Making a useless gadget just because it's cool is a waste.

The good thing about the current gadgets is that we know how they already work, the developers know how they work, and that is key. I could tell you that I think we should have 15 alarm snares are they should be able to be toggled. You know exactly what I mean and can instantly start thinking of the ramifications. When you say make a rope that trips people and can be climbed...well.... why would I ever want to trip someone when I can snap their neck? Why would I want to throw a rope instead of have my buddy climb up me? What balance would this create? Nothing good comes of this.

One suggestion I do have is that the game is set up in a best two of three system. Play as spy, lose, play as merc, win, randomly play as spy or merc. I think that would help a great deal with people whoring the spy and leaving during their merc rounds... Suggestions? Discussion?

The thing about the current gadgets is that they aren't new. There hasn't been a gadget mentioned that doesn't have a specific use. Some may be LESS useful to the overall purpose of what you are trying to do. As are SOME gadgets that were already out there (Flares? Phosphorus?).

The saying, "Why would I want to do A when I could do B" isn't very valid because why would you want to Jump on people when you could Snap their Neck. It's SOMETHING else to do. My version (That follows Curdly's Version) is a Trip Rope. Farley wanted a Co-Op rope.

In my revision the Trip Rope incapacitates the Merc's ability to Move. Not turn or fire, but just stop them for a few seconds. (As if their feet were tripped/tied up) In this way the Rope would be an inherent gadget that serves like a normal Co-Op mode when they are at each side of doorways.

The idea of yours sounds like Revenge Mode, possibly could be added upon. Since Revenge mode could end in a Stalemate. It's possible, but it also sounded like you were just suggesting that out of spite of what I said.

[Ion.67]

I actually just thought of it, it had nothing to do with your post.

Why would I jump on someone when I could snap their neck? I have the upper hand when they don't see me and I should take any chance I get. I am above them obviously, and jumping is quicker than grabbing and snapping, while possibly leaving more time to get away and leaving the gadget count the same. Snapping their neck has clear advantages (life count goes down, spawn far away, no communication), but jumping also has advantages.

Your trip rope idea has no clear advantage. I still do not even understand it; do you set it up and walk away, or do both spies have to stay and hold the rope? In one case, it would be slightly more useful. Still though, a camera can serve just as good of a cause, and better yet, since both spies will probably still be hovering in the same area, use some partner work to hack the objective.

Speaking of partner work, it should be a crucial part of project stealth. In CT, coop spots seemed to be an added gimmick that attempted to encourage you to stick with your partner to gain better positions. What it really did though was force you to stay with your partner in the opening moves of the game, get one player in that spot, and have the other cause diversions and distractions so the cooped partner could get into position. Is there anything wrong with that? No! But, there should be advantage of staying together that extend far beyond that. I believe that those advantages were there in CT (it was so much easier to get an objective when the merc had to deal with someone else first) but they were not prevalent enough.

As far as the coop rope, why not just have the spy climb up the body? Leaving the rope would be bad... why even make it a coop spot if you can go by yourself?

[Spekkio]

Speaking of partner work, it should be a crucial part of project stealth. In CT, coop spots seemed to be an added gimmick that attempted to encourage you to stick with your partner to gain better positions. What it really did though was force you to stay with your partner in the opening moves of the game, get one player in that spot, and have the other cause diversions and distractions so the cooped partner could get into position. Is there anything wrong with that? No! But, there should be advantage of staying together that extend far beyond that. I believe that those advantages were there in CT (it was so much easier to get an objective when the merc had to deal with someone else first) but they were not prevalent enough.

I disagree with this because it makes the game exceedingly difficult to play with anyone other than a steady teammate. It's already kinda there for spies, so it really doesn't have to move more in that direction.

I do agree that Co-op moves were a gimmick in most maps. Coop should give offer the spies an alternative, but not be necessary to give you an advantage. The maps that did co-op moves correctly were Factory and Club; maps that did it incorrectly were Aqua and Station. Aqua because you couldn't access the entire map without a teammate, and Station because it was impossible to get into the map without a teammate.

The thing about the current gadgets is that they aren't new. There hasn't been a gadget mentioned that doesn't have a specific use. Some may be LESS useful to the overall purpose of what you are trying to do. As are SOME gadgets that were already out there (Flares? Phosphorus?).

So? New doesn't equate to good, and old doesn't equate to bad. Most of the gadgets currently work, and some could be brought up to par with a small amount of modification. Ion is exactly right as far as the quality of gadget suggestions.

Additionally, too many gadgets is a bad thing. If you add 1-2 more gadgets per side, you now have up to 10 gadgets to choose from each. Do you now expand the slots to 5-6? Do you keep it at 4? At some point, it becomes impossible to balance all gadget combinations, and the game becomes a silly guessing game of taking the proper load out to counter your partner's load out.

This is why I said that the gadgets will need to be redone from the ground up if you want anything significantly new and good. However, you can't reinvent the wheel; there are only so many military-esque equipment items you can include before you start going into the realm of ridiculousness. The way we kill each other hasn't changed much over the past 100 years or so; the tools have just evolved to be more efficient at it.

Firstly, I believe that smoke and cams should not be absolutely countered by the mask. He wants it as a mandatory gadget, but then why even take the smokes when the merc can hit a button and be saved? Then again, without the mask you are screwed.

Smoke does more than just slow the mercs; it masks your movement as well. Yes, it can be countered via MT or EMF if you're using thermal, but flashbangs can, too.

Like you said, though, you're screwed without mask as long as cams cause a KO. No one is going to give up that gadget so long as it offers an additional way to KO the merc, and thus you'd be silly not to take the gasmask. In PT, you could "cam wall" someone into an area, so the mask was a good addition.

All we as community members can do is "Suggest" (Har Har, Topic Name) stuff we'd like to see. A rope would be FUN to use. Is it practical within the gameplay aspect? Not really, but that's why it was mentioned. COULD it be practical? Maybe if it was figured out exactly how a rope could fit in.

Your thought process is all fucked up, as are all the people suggesting useless gadgets.

The very first thing you should think of before you start rattling off gadget ideas is what would be useful in the context of the game. What do you really need help doing? Then you think of an idea to solve the problem.

Instead, you're thinking of a gadget and then trying to force it to work in the context of the game. You're creating a solution and then trying to invent a problem where none may exist. That is why the gadgets suck.

I did find it fun to sit on the Cams. I did plant myself in "Safe" spots when using it, but that far from meant that I was completely safe from a Spy Attack. Goes with your same argument before that, "If the person is doing Action A, then he isn't doing Action B".

I'm glad you found it fun to hit spacebar then tab at a fast pace to find spies on MT. Surely that's what SvM is all about...sitting around and passively looking through a camera to find spies.

Camnet sucks for multiple reasons:

1) Passive cams do their job just fine. Yes, they can be countered, but that's why you have additional traps and mines to augment those cams. You can also, I dunno, walk around a bit to find the spies. There was absolutely no reason to make this a manual process. But some idiot thought it would be a "cool" idea to put in the game and Ubi listened for some god awful reason. For better or worse, the PS team doesn't want to remove content, so we're stuck with it.

2) It kills the meta-game. Mercs aren't vulnerable when they sit in one spot. This is why "rail camping" sucks so much. There's really nothing the spies can do to counter a merc who doesn't have to move to a more vulnerable position. He can kill you from any distance with a sniper; you can't do anything to him unless you get close and above or behind him. Camnet allows one merc to conduct his search in safety, while the other just hunts what the first one sees. The subtitle to SvM is "Stealth Action." There's no real action when a merc is sitting in a corner flipping through cameras.

3) It's completely overpowered in its current form. This problem can be fixed, but you'll still have the first two issues to contend with.

[Frelli]

[...]Camnet sucks for multiple reasons:[...]

Althought your arguments sound pretty logic and good, the truth is that the only map that it was a problem on was River Mall. In my 5 (or how many years CT has been out) years of playing, I have never experienced the camnet as overpowered (except for River Mall as I mentioned).

[tigaer]

Only gadgets I think would even be worth testing would be;

Shock Wires (Spy)
Shoots like a spy bullet, connects with the opposite wall like a laser mine but when a merc walks through it he gets shocked. Wire can be seen and shot.

Hacking Bullets (Spy)
Shoots like a spy bullet, hacks hack panels and only panels automatically. Multiply the hack time by 2. Can be seen and shot.

Hologram thing (Spy)
Everybody knows this. Still think it would be fun to test.

Rappel (Merc)
Rappel down railings like DA.

Drone Grenade (Merc)
Would shoot like a grenade, after it settles (stops bouncing) after being shot you can control it and detonate it, much like the drones from DA. it'd look like Metroid in ball mode. Would control in first person. Only flashlight, and it's always on, no vision modes.

My opinion though. Don't stop thinking up gadgets though, some of them are interesting ideas and like reading stuff like this. So keep thinking stuff up. Think up some gadgets that help you avoid situations that you didn't like in CT.

[Farley4Fan]

Ion, the rope isn't for tripping mercs.

Sorry sir....

Second, it could be used as a trip rope (I mentioned this in another thread) if both spies grab either end near a door or hallway.

Trip Rope would be Fun! Now don't go assuming that the rope is Huge and easy to see. Imagine if Doorways were actually Co-Op spots and the "Rope" was near invisible. Maybe a Wire. You don't have to use it, but then again. You don't HAVE to use anything. A KO time for Merc. Or hell, maybe it makes them unable to move for a few seconds (unlike a KO they could still shoot and turn, just not move).

I guess I had mistaken the words trip rope for a rope that would trip people.

Thought you were talking about my post.  Sorry, smartass.

[CurdyMilk]

Only gadgets I think would even be worth testing would be;

Shock Wires (Spy)
Shoots like a spy bullet, connects with the opposite wall like a laser mine but when a merc walks through it he gets shocked. Wire can be seen and shot.

Hacking Bullets (Spy)
Shoots like a spy bullet, hacks hack panels and only panels automatically. Multiply the hack time by 2. Can be seen and shot.

Hologram thing (Spy)
Everybody knows this. Still think it would be fun to test.

Rappel (Merc)
Rappel down railings like DA.

Drone Grenade (Merc)
Would shoot like a grenade, after it settles (stops bouncing) after being shot you can control it and detonate it, much like the drones from DA. it'd look like Metroid in ball mode. Would control in first person. Only flashlight, and it's always on, no vision modes.

My opinion though. Don't stop thinking up gadgets though, some of them are interesting ideas and like reading stuff like this. So keep thinking stuff up. Think up some gadgets that help you avoid situations that you didn't like in CT.

Shock Wires are good and should be tested for sure.  This is similar to the trip rope but the more I think about it this would be better than the rope because it would be much easier to make and more convenient.  Hacking bullets also seem legitmate.  I am not a huge fan of the hologram or drone grenades though.  The hologram could be very annoying if you are the merc having to watch it.  For the drone, I think that the spies should be able to have safe spots on each map where they know they cannot be killed.  Vents would no longer be safe because you would always have to be watching out for some robot thing chasing you around.  It is harder to be deceptive with a cat and mouse style.