Challenge based Rankings

[Westfall]

My attention span can't last your posts ;)

I am cool with Achievements. I am not okay with unlockable gadgets and making this an experience game with level ups. My spy will not be a fucking elf that needs to level up. Everyone should have a fair chance to defend themselves with the given gadgets. The combination of use is up to them, but they should all be present. If you want unlockable things, lean towards skins.

[Cronky]

I am cool with Achievements. I am not okay with unlockable gadgets and making this an experience game with level ups. My spy will not be a fucking elf that needs to level up. Everyone should have a fair chance to defend themselves with the given gadgets. The combination of use is up to them, but they should all be present. If you want unlockable things, lean towards skins.

See, I can still understand that. I have not once said that the idea of Gadget Rewards was a perfect idea. I'm just trying to find a way that it Could work. Whether for of pacing, or longevity of the game, the reason of how it could work is still not explained (Except by what I've been saying).

Skins could work, I just kinda assumed anything that DA did wasn't worth the time of day. Curdly also mentioned that the skins could be "Bad". Saying, in essence, that if they didn't take the same amount of time making the first spy suit as they did the second one, or just gave us VERY Minor tweaks to our existing one... It wouldn't be worth it.

An Idea needs to be accepted before it can be talked about, and talked about to be refined. STON3's Challenges are a good example of that. The point being that None of us are Devs. None of the ideas we talk about are SURE to be implemented into the final game, or even thought about. So I suggest people be more constructive with the, "How it Could"s, rather than the, "Why It Wont"s.

Remember that "Rewards" weren't my idea in the first place! Noop went and said something about it. I ran with it. Noop didn't keep with the idea, or tell what he really meant by his first post (Assuming he wasn't being sarcastic) like STON3 did. So I'm left being the only one defending how this idea Could work. With all of you saying why it Wont.

What you said about Experience and Level Ups seem kind of out there to me, unless you're talking about Ranks. I think the closest thing to what was said here about that is... Gaining a Level or Rank as to show that you are not a beginner at the game. The same kind of way that Halo has it's "Ranks". Perhaps I'm mistaken though.

(I know my long posts are REALLY long, but at least now I've put them into Sections so as you could read the parts that interest you ;))

[Westfall]

Different skins could also end up leading to a "oh he has a different skin..he must be experienced"

why would I support something I don't agree with and attempt to find a way to implement it if I..don't..agree..with..it? If anything I will voice my displeasure in hope of the devs seeing why certain things just won't work with this type of game.

However, there could be some sort of mode you can have to implement this idea, but it seems more single player than multiplayer.

[Cronky]

I understand that reasoning, and believe that the skin idea you mentioned is a perfect means to solve two problems I had. Rewards and Unfair Competition.

My reasoning behind being open to ideas and not instantly bashing one is the simple fact that it takes more work. I can disagree with 90% of what's going on here. Anytime the Dev's mention that they aren't Remaking Club House with Lakehouse, or saying that this isn't just a remake of CT SvM. It's easy to say something is bad and have legit reasoning behind it, but can you defend a new idea with the same amount of ease?

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Person A: I don't like the idea of Challenges/Achievements. They are an artificial way of lengthening the games life.

Person B: They don't affect gameplay at all. So why not?

Person A: If they serve no purpose, why take the time to make them at all?

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SEE how easy that was?

This game is one of those special cases where the game isn't out, it's far from done, and is open to minor change.

Why would I want the exact same experience I had with CT if I could come up with a legit reason to change it? Sure, some could say, "But this isn't going to Play like CT. This is a whole new game". Solid reasoning? Yes. Am I able to make a solid response while not straying away from my first comment? Also yes.

Side Note: Optional Advantage
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It seems as though the people who respond about the difference in available options between two people (me included) compared them with a person that equals out to their partner.

Spy A doesn't have Network Cams/Wrist Hacker

Spy B Has Network Cams/Wrist Hacker

Spy A < Spy B

Though that problem still exists in a sense it doesn't affect gameplay as dramatically as it's coming off as. Since Spy A isn't fighting Spy B. Spy A hasn't been playing the game as much as Spy B; such as, Spy B has different options to choose from.

They both go against the Mercs, still having a variety of options at their disposal, still able to pass by defenses, break necks, and hack/extract/blow up objectives. Just one has minor changes they could do. Again none of them HUGE. Spy B doesn't have an Optic Camo that last longer than Spy A's. Spy B doesn't have shoes that make them not show up on a Merc's Sound Detector.

Plus there could be a thought of Co-Op Gadgets. Such as Network Cams. The idea behind that is that Spies get a Camnet kind of Gadget that both players can use but they have to set up. Does that mean each one has to bring network cams? Could be if you balanced it that way, but not needed since there is already the big con of having to not move to look through cams.

Spy A == Spy B in this case except for the small fact that... Spy A can't set up the cams. Nothing gamebreakingly horrible there. No one is left without a Major option at their disposal.

Side Note: Mindset Control
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It's easy to give everyone everything.

It's fun (To some people, I understand) to get things for doing something you already plan to do.

It's difficult to pick what can be held back without affecting Major Gameplay.

Lastly, it's hard to explain to people that are under the impression that they are getting everything that some stuff should be held back... At least in a way that makes sense.

This mechanic is also a means to help the developers when it comes to implementing new Gadgets. Since unlike CT, PS could gain more stuff as they go along. We don't know what they can cook up while we are playing, but the time inbetween new content we don't get anything new (Gadget Wise). A lull of nothingness can be minimized by a pacing of variation.

[Spekkio]

Holy shit, Cronky...look up the word "concise" in the dictionary, and quit being so verbose.

[Cronky]

Nah, I'm fine.

;D

[CurdyMilk]

This mechanic is also a means to help the developers when it comes to implementing new Gadgets. Since unlike CT, PS could gain more stuff as they go along. We don't know what they can cook up while we are playing, but the time inbetween new content we don't get anything new (Gadget Wise). A lull of nothingness can be minimized by a pacing of variation.

How about a spy gadget like a trip rope.  It could be placed in dark hallways or doors if the spy chooses.  If the merc does not notice it, then if he crosses it he falls and gets knocked out just like a cam gas.  If he notices, he can either shoot it or manually disable it.

[Cronky]

How about a spy gadget like a trip rope.  It could be placed in dark hallways or doors if the spy chooses.  If the merc does not notice it, then if he crosses it he falls and gets knocked out just like a cam gas.  If he notices, he can either shoot it or manually disable it.

I think it would work if balanced out right. How would it be set up? Is it like a Spy Laser Mine? Or do you have to shoot two within a certain distance of eachother? (Connects between two points)

Probably should do what you said, but only knock them down. No knock out. Just a slight diversion that gives you a few seconds of freedom.

[Farley4Fan]

I think I remember talking about a trip rope.  I think it would be pretty cool.  As long as the spy also trips over them (including teammates).  I'm thinking like the trap bolt from bioshock.  Maybe it shoots out of the spy's launcher and has an electrical charge?  Instead of tripping the merc maybe it would shock him a bit and give him a system mal? 

It would have to be pretty thin with something the size of an alarm snare that attaches to the wall.

[Cronky]

I like that. Pretty much a Free System Malfunction. (If the Merc runs over it)

Seems like a pretty legit gadget.

Plus firing like the Trap Bolt in Bioshock. Perfect.

[tigaer]

I like that. Pretty much a Free System Malfunction. (If the Merc runs over it)

Seems like a pretty legit gadget.

Plus firing like the Trap Bolt in Bioshock. Perfect.

I think it'd be a cool gadget to try out as long as it had an indicator, like a little blue light, on the actual gadget that's on the wall holding the wire, so you'd have to put it behind things, such as the bookshelf things in the hallways on Clubhouse or it's easily seen, exactly like a mine. Otherwise, it'd be virtually impossible to see while chasing a spy.

On the subject of new gadgets, I think a device that projects a looping (3 sec?) holographic spy running in a straight line in the direction you were looking when it was dropped (dropped like the Jammer in DA) would be another cool gadget to try out. Think of this, spy is getting chased, runs around a corner and drops the device, merc turns the corner, sees the running spy and continues to chase it thinking it is the real spy, the second he discovers it's looping, he gets grabbed from the real spy. Bam, beast.

[CurdyMilk]

On the subject of new gadgets, I think a device that projects a looping (3 sec?) holographic spy running in a straight line in the direction you were looking when it was dropped (dropped like the Jammer in DA) would be another cool gadget to try out. Think of this, spy is getting chased, runs around a corner and drops the device, merc turns the corner, sees the running spy and continues to chase it thinking it is the real spy, the second he discovers it's looping, he gets grabbed from the real spy. Bam, beast.

Isn't this the same effect produced by a flash bang?  The merc sees still standing spy along with a whitish color and it fools him as to where the spy actually is.  The only difference here is the spy is seen moving rather than still.  I see it as very similar, but hey it could work.

[Cronky]

On the subject of new gadgets, I think a device that projects a looping (3 sec?) holographic spy running in a straight line in the direction you were looking when it was dropped (dropped like the Jammer in DA) would be another cool gadget to try out. Think of this, spy is getting chased, runs around a corner and drops the device, merc turns the corner, sees the running spy and continues to chase it thinking it is the real spy, the second he discovers it's looping, he gets grabbed from the real spy. Bam, beast.

The problem I find with this gadget idea is the quickness to realize the difference between hologram and real spy.

I'm sure your example could be better explained through visuals, but it sounds like it's a VERY situational gadget. The example being the only time it would work. Unless there was some huge deal behind it that made it able to tell the difference of areas and able to turn corners; it seems like only a couple situations would happen.

Either:

A.) The Merc sees that the motion tracker deal stopped ticking, but sees the spy still running. Giving away that the spy is using a hologram right away.

Solved by the hologram making noise, but then again. What would make noise? The Hologram itself, or the gadget where you used it?

The difference being that the hologram is moving so it would SEEM like the spy is ahead of the Merc even as the Merc gets closer to it (The motion tracker always saying where the noise is coming from in relation to the Holograms footsteps).

Or the device itself meaning that you would need to place it in front of your new hiding spot to momentarily throw off the Merc. (Like an Alarm Snare and it's inability to move)

AND/OR

B.) The hologram running into a wall (Since if it was just of a Spy running, I assume it wouldn't know to turn corners), thus the Merc (In a situation where the hologram isn't running down a long hall) instantly knowing that it's a hologram.

I could see the gadget working if you could record a few seconds of you doing something. Then using it later as bait. If you've played Braid, Blinx The Time Sweeper, the newest Ratchet and Clank, or basically any Time game that uses clones of yourself to solve puzzles then you can imagine the idea.

You record yourself Jumping, use the gadget and it replays you Jumping as a hologram. That kind of thing.

[Spekkio]

Holy shit it's the hologram gadget discussion again. Cuz holograms are real useful...see a spy, you shoot him. See a hologram, you shoot it. Hologram doesn't move, must be a fake...

Exactly how will that be useful?

[tigaer]

Holy shit it's the hologram gadget discussion again. Cuz holograms are real useful...see a spy, you shoot him. See a hologram, you shoot it. Hologram doesn't move, must be a fake...

Exactly how will that be useful?

The hologram would be a looping video of a sky running in a straight line in the direction it was dropped, so yes, it would move.