How's the gadget balancing going?

[Kubanator]

One thing that always annoyed me in CT was how shitty the balance was.

Gas mask is necessary out of an imbalanced relationship, taser is useless unless you're fighting two aggro spies, and only then is it mildly useful, camnet is simply bad because it relies on the map for balance rather than being inherently balanced, backpack is just a boost for good gadgets, spy trap is pretty much the only balanced option, with mines and grenades being overpowered.

On the other side we have spies, with flashbangs being useless (only working on one vision for 3 seconds), heartbeat and spy bullet sharing the same ability, the only difference being spy bullet is usable during hacking, and heart beat goes through walls. Smoke grenade blocks 2/3 vision modes and slows down mercs, and stickies can instantly knockout a merc. Chaff are only useful for mines placed in a fashion which makes them too hard to target, and they will be useless when they cannot go through walls. Camo acts as an ambush tool, but is really obvious unless the merc is in a hurry, or you're in a spot where the merc doesn't look too hard, hence making it a very niche tool and therefore weak.

Merc loadouts:

Frag grenades
Mines
-Gadget-
Gas mask

Spy loadout:

-Gadget-
-Gadget-
Sticky Camera
-Spy bullet/Heartbeat-

Now, how has project stealth planned to avoid these imbalances?

[MR.Mic]

We're giving spies rocket launchers to smooth out the overall imbalance from CT's spy/merc dynamic.

[CurdyMilk]

We're giving spies rocket launchers to smooth out the overall imbalance from CT's spy/merc dynamic.

Rocket Launchers?!?!?!?!?  You have to be kidding me, right?  I thought this was a stealth game not a massive blowup destruction game...I cannot see this working whatsoever if bombs are launched out of it.  But if you are talking about lauching the smoke, chaff, flash, etc. then it is a different story...  And there was balance in CT.  Mercs would win probably 60%-70% of the time for pros, but that is how it should be.  After all, they are supposed to be more powerful.  It makes the win as spy that much more rewarding.  Another reason that mercs won more was because of bad teamwork.  If you are always playing with a different mate, then you cannot develop any plans of executing the objectives. 

[MR.Mic]

We're giving spies rocket launchers to smooth out the overall imbalance from CT's spy/merc dynamic.

Rocket Launchers?!?!?!?!?  You have to be kidding me, right?  I thought this was a stealth game not a massive blowup destruction game...I cannot see this working whatsoever if bombs are launched out of it.  But if you are talking about lauching the smoke, chaff, flash, etc. then it is a different story...  And there was balance in CT.  Mercs would win probably 60%-70% of the time for pros, but that is how it should be.  After all, they are supposed to be more powerful.  It makes the win as spy that much more rewarding.  Another reason that mercs won more was because of bad teamwork.  If you are always playing with a different mate, then you cannot develop any plans of executing the objectives.  

No I mean rocket launchers that blow stuff up.

We plan to allow rocket jumping for spies, like in quake 3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86faXZ3_ovY

That should allow for much more quick-paced movement.
Also, that video is about what we plan for in terms of merc run speed as well.

Plus, mercs will be able to counter the rocket launchers with a Hadouken.

[tigaer]

This is so exciting!

[CurdyMilk]

We're giving spies rocket launchers to smooth out the overall imbalance from CT's spy/merc dynamic.

Rocket Launchers?!?!?!?!?  You have to be kidding me, right?  I thought this was a stealth game not a massive blowup destruction game...I cannot see this working whatsoever if bombs are launched out of it.  But if you are talking about lauching the smoke, chaff, flash, etc. then it is a different story...  And there was balance in CT.  Mercs would win probably 60%-70% of the time for pros, but that is how it should be.  After all, they are supposed to be more powerful.  It makes the win as spy that much more rewarding.  Another reason that mercs won more was because of bad teamwork.  If you are always playing with a different mate, then you cannot develop any plans of executing the objectives.  

No I mean rocket launchers that blow stuff up.

We plan to allow rocket jumping for spies, like in quake 3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86faXZ3_ovY

That should allow for much more quick-paced movement.
Also, that video is about what we plan for in terms of merc run speed as well.

Plus, mercs will be able to counter the rocket launchers with a Hadouken.

Can you explain this a little more?  I am not exactly seeing the point of it.  So it blows up objects but not mercs?  I cannot see the real advantage.  And it is used to fast travel across a map?  I am not exactly a fan of quick movement like that.  It should be stealthy movement not some rapid warping device.  And what is a Hadouken?

[MR.Mic]

We're giving spies rocket launchers to smooth out the overall imbalance from CT's spy/merc dynamic.

Rocket Launchers?!?!?!?!?  You have to be kidding me, right?  I thought this was a stealth game not a massive blowup destruction game...I cannot see this working whatsoever if bombs are launched out of it.  But if you are talking about lauching the smoke, chaff, flash, etc. then it is a different story...  And there was balance in CT.  Mercs would win probably 60%-70% of the time for pros, but that is how it should be.  After all, they are supposed to be more powerful.  It makes the win as spy that much more rewarding.  Another reason that mercs won more was because of bad teamwork.  If you are always playing with a different mate, then you cannot develop any plans of executing the objectives.  

No I mean rocket launchers that blow stuff up.

We plan to allow rocket jumping for spies, like in quake 3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86faXZ3_ovY

That should allow for much more quick-paced movement.
Also, that video is about what we plan for in terms of merc run speed as well.

Plus, mercs will be able to counter the rocket launchers with a Hadouken.

Can you explain this a little more?  I am not exactly seeing the point of it.  So it blows up objects but not mercs?  I cannot see the real advantage.  And it is used to fast travel across a map?  I am not exactly a fan of quick movement like that.  It should be stealthy movement not some rapid warping device.  And what is a Hadouken?

It blows up mercs, too. Instant kill.
That should even out the 80% merc wins from CT.

Mercs get the hadouken from street fighter 2, which is the energy ball attack that Ryu gets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHJKS3r_YUg

EDIT: the above hadouken video isnt really a good example.
This is a better example of what we're going for: (watch the end)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF66L0rWBbI

[CurdyMilk]

We're giving spies rocket launchers to smooth out the overall imbalance from CT's spy/merc dynamic.

Rocket Launchers?!?!?!?!?  You have to be kidding me, right?  I thought this was a stealth game not a massive blowup destruction game...I cannot see this working whatsoever if bombs are launched out of it.  But if you are talking about lauching the smoke, chaff, flash, etc. then it is a different story...  And there was balance in CT.  Mercs would win probably 60%-70% of the time for pros, but that is how it should be.  After all, they are supposed to be more powerful.  It makes the win as spy that much more rewarding.  Another reason that mercs won more was because of bad teamwork.  If you are always playing with a different mate, then you cannot develop any plans of executing the objectives.  

No I mean rocket launchers that blow stuff up.

We plan to allow rocket jumping for spies, like in quake 3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86faXZ3_ovY

That should allow for much more quick-paced movement.
Also, that video is about what we plan for in terms of merc run speed as well.

Plus, mercs will be able to counter the rocket launchers with a Hadouken.

Can you explain this a little more?  I am not exactly seeing the point of it.  So it blows up objects but not mercs?  I cannot see the real advantage.  And it is used to fast travel across a map?  I am not exactly a fan of quick movement like that.  It should be stealthy movement not some rapid warping device.  And what is a Hadouken?

It blows up mercs, too. Instant kill.
That should even out the 80% merc wins from CT.

Mercs get the hadouken from street fighter 2, which is the energy ball attack that Ryu gets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHJKS3r_YUg

I would not say the mercs win 80%.  Actually my mate and I won over half of our spy rounds.  The balance has more to do with the map and its size/layout than the actual gadgets themselves.  I do agree that the flash bang was a little underpowered, but other than that gameplay was based purely on the map.  How could you play to make rocket launchers and hadoukens stealthy?  In my mind I see this turning into a massive mess.  Obviously this assessment is based purely on my imagination because I do not have my hands on this game, but I just can't see it happening.  It moves the game away from its foundation and core.

[MR.Mic]

It will be stealthy when we put in teleporting for spies like raiden in mortal kombat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfxX5OBAikU

Plus, mercs get wall-climbing like in aliens versus predator to balance out the ability for spies to teleport like that.

[Cronky]

Go on...

:)

[tigaer]

It will be stealthy when we put in teleporting for spies like raiden in mortal kombat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfxX5OBAikU

Plus, mercs get wall-climbing like in aliens versus predator to balance out the ability for spies to teleport like that.

I still think we need to make a fourth vision mode for merc where he can see through walls so he can atleast follow the teleporting spy, otherwise teleporting is going to work too well. Has kebab modeled the light bulb suit for the merc yet?

[MR.Mic]

It will be stealthy when we put in teleporting for spies like raiden in mortal kombat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfxX5OBAikU

Plus, mercs get wall-climbing like in aliens versus predator to balance out the ability for spies to teleport like that.

I still think we need to make a fourth vision mode for merc where he can see through walls so he can atleast follow the teleporting spy, otherwise teleporting is going to work too well. Has kebab modeled the light bulb suit for the merc yet?

He doesn't need to model a whole suit. We just need to model a single lightbulb and propagate the mesh across the existing model per-vertex.  Then you have the lightbulb suit.

Though, we will need a model for the jetpacks.

[Kubanator]

I think I invented Dev-bait.

[tigaer]

Who's modeling the boomerang? That's a crucial component to our new gamemode, Annihilation.

[Farley4Fan]

I am modeling the boomerang with i-sketch.  It will be directly imported into the game from there.  Do you guys want pink or maroon colored boomerangs?  Those are your two options.