The fix list

[Spekkio]

Incidentally, in the SC tourney Lo and I beat seefoo and vantage on UMP Cinema when Lo completely stealthed the disk to extraction. Hell, I didn't even know he was doing it myself. I saw the message and was like 'omfg you got the disk???!" and he was like "yea of course."

Granted, repeating such a feat often is very difficult, but it's not impossible.

[goodkebab]

^^i have seen it done a couple times as well...

[Overstatement]

Spies should get some indication that they are going too fast and are being detected by radar.

[Spekkio]

For the disk or for normal? For normal circumstances, you get a pinging noise.

[Overstatement]

For when they have the disk. Pinging noise?

[Valserp]

For normal - you get a ping when you(or sometimes your partner) make a noise that is detected on the merc's reticle. The ping is the very same ping that the merc hears when his reticle detects the noise.

Having an indication for being detected by the merc's radar with the disc on could be a good implementation for newbies in PS.

[goodkebab]

i wanted to light up the tubes on the spy when he pings the reticle of the merc...could be coded for radar-disk as well.  That will help even the experienced players at knowing when they make noise.

[Valserp]

Would be good if it's toggle-able from the options, though.

[Spekkio]

Added stuff about the disk, KOs, autoroll and autograb to the OP.

Your classifications and the unspoken suggestions of how the game SHOULD be played are what turn people off in the first place because they may simply not want to play the game the way you enjoy it.  And to be honest, if we wanted to sell out and appeal to the masses, we would have to make the game a simple aggro fest.  So we have to go half way,  and make the game exciting enough with confrontations,  but with the depth of stealth.

Well-put, Kebab. I think CT did this already, it just has way too many bugs/inconsistencies (as you can see by my long list in the OP).

slightly widen flashlight radius

Huh?

You want to reduce MT whoring, correct? Well, with the nerfs to MT, the mercs need to get something to help see in the dark (yea, I know there's flares but come on, no one is going to take them). The flashlight is barely bigger than the reticle as-is. A 25-33% increase should suffice.

[Overstatement]

You want to reduce MT whoring, correct? Well, with the nerfs to MT, the mercs need to get something to help see in the dark (yea, I know there's flares but come on, no one is going to take them). The flashlight is barely bigger than the reticle as-is. A 25-33% increase should suffice.

Yeah but when you nerf an overpowered thing, the game should become balanced. Then you attempt to "balance" out the nerf with a buff, the game becomes unbalanced again. I never use MT nightvision(F1 is too far) and I like the flashlight. Which means I'll get something good but lose nothing. Anyways, they should be adjusted to suit a role, MT should spot moving spies and flashlight should be to spot still spies.

[InvisibleMan999]

Regardeing your map changes...

(not even sure if map changes are that important for PS, but whatever, I'm kinda bored)

Aqua:
-Add doors onto the catwalk overlooking Pirate. Allow the spies to grab the ledge there to ledge-grab mercs.
-Remove the rain from the map to fix the sound

I'd add in:
-Create a pipe to climb up to tech from spawn, or remove the box under the tech ledge to eliminate the 'tech jump' glitch.

Aqua also seriously needs another objective to make it less of a merc map. I'm thinking maybe a bombing objective with a long timer in a newly created side room inside the office, that requires a separate panel that must be hacked (with no coop shortcut). At the very least that forces mercs to guard the office somewhat if greek gets hacked first, and also gives spies a way to draw mercs away from camping greek. 

Missile (is this even fixable???):
-Disable the ability to shoot through the catwalks in sector 1.
-There is a merc-only-shootable vent between the disk room where you can only enter through the front door. Remove that vent to allow the spies to hit all 4 disks from multiple routes.
-Add some cover to the dropoff near the entrance to sector 3. This would obviously need lots of testing to get it right.

The main problem with missile is the disks, I'd say just remove that objective entirely. Instead of having disks just have 4 neutralization objectives, 2 up where the disks used to be, and 2 down in the disk dropoff room. Completing any two neutralizations opens up part 3.

Museum:
-Make it PT-style neutralization. You need to get 2 of 3 obj, but once you get one in a room the other shuts off.

Yeah, this would totally fix museum. I always wondered why they screwed that up so badly. 

River Mall:
-Remove camnet in the hologram room

I've always wondered how the map would play if you removed the hologram entirely.

Bank:
-Nothing really to fix here. I'm not a fan of the map's style but it's more winnable than Warehouse

Bank needs a delay after the first objective is hacked so that it takes longer for the second objective to open. A lot of the time you can lose a session on bank simply because the spies can run down to the bottom so quickly and hack the back objective before you can catch them.

Deftech:
-Needs removal of security in some places, but would have to play with exactly where. Make it all neutralization like in PT. Add some coop places somewhere as well, but not sure where exactly.

I like the neutralization idea. Deftech needs all its security removed. Seriously. No motion sensors, no cameras, nothing. Maybe leave a few sensors in vents where the mercs can't see, but the basic building structures don't need any security.

Also the message telling you what building has been opened needs to be tossed as well. It's fine to have a hacking message, but it shouldn't tell you that they just opened the main door of building C.

 

Hospital:
-Put motion sensors back in rooms 102 and 205.
-Make the camnets movable in the main hallways
-Add a camnet camera to the outside courtyard
(some people may disagree but I find hospital to be way too easy for spies. A big part of that though is the fact that chaff works through walls)

I honestly don't think that hospital needs any changes. It's always felt like a well-balanced map.

Shermerhorn:
-Camera hack should be permanent, or reduce the time to 4 seconds

Nah, the camera hack is pretty easy to get to, so I certainly wouldn't make it permanent. I'd just make it like 2-3 seconds though, like the camera hack in river mall.

[Spekkio]

-Create a pipe to climb up to tech from spawn, or remove the box under the tech ledge to eliminate the 'tech jump' glitch.

The box jump "glitch" would automatically be fixed via what I suggested (there are doors covering the entrances, so it doesn't matter that you can get up there because you still can't get in.

The main problem with missile is the disks, I'd say just remove that objective entirely. Instead of having disks just have 4 neutralization objectives, 2 up where the disks used to be, and 2 down in the disk dropoff room. Completing any two neutralizations opens up part 3.

Too far apart/hard to cover.

Bank needs a delay after the first objective is hacked so that it takes longer for the second objective to open. A lot of the time you can lose a session on bank simply because the spies can run down to the bottom so quickly and hack the back objective before you can catch them.

Yeah, bank is funny like that...sector 1 is totally imbalanced towards mercs, but if you manage to finish it it's often an auto-win for the spies.

I like the neutralization idea. Deftech needs all its security removed. Seriously. No motion sensors, no cameras, nothing. Maybe leave a few sensors in vents where the mercs can't see, but the basic building structures don't need any security.

No, it does need SOME security. However, the way the map is now you cannot get to any objective without shooting out no less than two motion sensors, and often the first one is shot on the first level of the buildings. This is more than enough time for the mercs to get into the buildings. In PT this was balanced because spies could cam-wall the mercs out, but in CT it's not.

I honestly don't think that hospital needs any changes. It's always felt like a well-balanced map.

It's really easy for spies, but I feel a lot of that has to do with two factors:

1. All the mine/trap spots have long been exhausted
2. Chaff works through walls. When you chaff the 3 lasers to enter a room, you automatically disable any mines near there which would ordinarilly slow you down.

[goodkebab]

Mines on Deftech  can pretty much make stealth useless as well.  The proxy above the underground vent to C and the poison once you try to get in cannot be taken out with chaff either.

It is technically possible to get into B without security  (until the detector near disk that is)  but to do so you need to take the zipline which is suicide.



What do you guys think of introducing the night vision goggles from single player into the multiplayer?  -being able to see the cone of vision of the security cameras and possibly detection radius of proxies(to overcome lag mines and sound issues).  I personally think thats a cool idea AND favors stealth players.

[Gawain]

i dont know it, but this sounds pretty cool. i like the security system on factory, as u can pass it without shooting them out.
another shit that needs to get fixed to stop the running-in-circles strats is the medkit. you should need some seconds there and another some to get to full health. atm the only way getting rid of a good aggro spy in garden is a headshot or some luck with nades/mines.

[Spekkio]

Mines on Deftech  can pretty much make stealth useless as well.  The proxy above the underground vent to C and the poison once you try to get in cannot be taken out with chaff either.

Yup. In PT, the chaff was big enough to take out that laser (it was usually a spy trap).

Anyway, your NV idea is cool. As long as you don't give it the CT single-player fishbowl look.

another shit that needs to get fixed to stop the running-in-circles strats is the medkit. you should need some seconds there and another some to get to full health. atm the only way getting rid of a good aggro spy in garden is a headshot or some luck with nades/mines.

Exhibit A of what happens when you have too little security.