Idea about MT

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Yeah, the thing in Main Hall in Factory is really annoying - and it gets even worse, when the guy is a good sniper -.-

[Spekkio]

Look, MT does need some tweaking, but it doesn't need the drastic nerfs that you guys are calling for. You all are really over-estimating how useful it is, as if it automatically finds spies for you all on its own. As for Factory main hall, MT does not detect a spy climbing the ladder to the top of the room unless you are standing right in front of spy spawn, and if a merc is standing deep in MH that means that either digger or machine is wide open, both rooms can be reached without crossing the wide open area of main hall. The hard task of stealthing factory is getting around camnet, which is doable with some decent timing, not motion tracking.

If there is no shadow inversion and it only works in FoV at a short range with no sound reticle functionality, there will be no reason at all to use MT except to shield yourself from flashbangs while being aggroed. If that's the case, you're better off using EMF anyway because it'll let you see the lit up spy who has to use thermal vision to see through his smoke grenades. In DA, I would rather have an option to turn MT off than have a redundant outline around spies that I can already see.

[InvisibleMan999]

Some of those are just too much. Let me elaborate.
If a spy at long range is allowed to move faster, then there is no reason to add the "spy behind merc is allowed to move faster".

Well, there is. Basically it's to allow medium range spies to sneak a bit better. Now keep in mind that when I say move faster, I just mean a fast speed crouch, not a full run. Full run will always trigger MT. regardless of distance or merc orientation.

Indicator informing a spy that they have been detected - that's a no no. Let's not spoonfeed them with everything, huh? The merc's visor is glowing red, you've been moving fast - you are detected. The merc's behaviour is usually enough indication.

Well MT can be difficult to figure out if you were detected or not. Especially since it detects you by default going at normal crouch speed, which is 90% of the time what most spies are doing. A lot of the time you really don't know if a merc happened to MT you before you got behind cover.

I figure that since MT is automatic for the merc, requiring no actual real vision, it should be automatic for the spy as well, telling him if he got detected.

The counter to MT is to shock the merc in the head (which I think there should be some indication if you do).

But the problem isn't that MT is too powerful against aggro. Nobody is saying that.

The problem is MT versus stealth spies, and if you're a stealth spy, shooting the merc doesn't cut it as a counter. To get a headshot, you'll have to be close, and you'll have to turn on your gun's laser. This pings the mercs sound detector. Now speaking as a motion whore, if I see a sound ping and no MT box, I'm immediately switching to EMF. So a shooting spy is going to give away his position.

If there is no shadow inversion and it only works in FoV at a short range with no sound reticle functionality, there will be no reason at all to use MT except to shield yourself from flashbangs while being aggroed. If that's the case, you're better off using EMF anyway because it'll let you see the lit up spy who has to use thermal vision to see through his smoke grenades. In DA, I would rather have an option to turn MT off than have a redundant outline around spies that I can already see.

Well I don't think anyone is saying to nerf it that severely. Though I think ditching shadow inversion is necessary, because it phases out the flashlight almost completely.

MT really is very powerful though. Speaking as a motion whore myself, it's very good. It's really the presence detector of CT. Very minimal work required, you just do a basic patrol and see if it pings something. If you know the general vicinity of the spy, generally he has three options, stay still in deep shadow and hope you leave, make a break for it, go for a head shot. One of those is a phenomenal waste of time for the spy and the other two are almost assured to give away his position against a decent merc.  MT in large rooms, like the main hall of factory, practically eliminates the need to actually look for spies manually. You just run around the room with MT and wait for it to put someone in a box. It has very little thought and it's highly effective.

MT is right now the biggest obstacle to stealth players.

[Gawain]

MT is right now the biggest obstacle to stealth players.

no, camnet is. but camnet requires timing and has some disadvantages, so it's ok.
if we disable the shadow inversion and allow spies far away to crouch without being detected, it should be balance out quite well. don't consider crappy maps like deftech as an paradigm how overpowered mt is. another idea: slightely increasing the detection time for spies far away, so that crouching from cover to cover gets easier and little mistakes do not result in giving away your position.
the challenge is to keep mt as a useful gadget. btw, will the ghosting totaly be removed in emf?

[LiVe.To.Di3]

lol camnet rules and i use it all the time but i only use it at the begin of the game and whenever i cannot see the spies for some time.. or just randomly turn it on to see but that all depends.. like clubhouse, if the spies are doing coop and you try camnet you cannot see them and thats a disadvantage as for all the toher maps there are disadvantages with camnet.. and mt

[Gui Brazil]

Well, there is. Basically it's to allow medium range spies to sneak a bit better.

You're almost trying to take the MT out of the game. I mean, medium range? Seriously, if we do something like that, we'll be just making something near a new DA. Beside, it seems, atleast to me, that you're trying to make MT something so useless, that it won't even be used.

Well MT can be difficult to figure out if you were detected or not. Especially since it detects you by default going at normal crouch speed, which is 90% of the time what most spies are doing. A lot of the time you really don't know if a merc happened to MT you before you got behind cover.

Shame on you for running around when a merc is right in front of you with MT. And if he's with his back to you, how can you be sure that he's not with MT to move fast?

[Gawain]

just add a static noise, fix the shadow inversion, and allow spies really far away to crouch in normal speed. maybe even this is too much...

[Valserp]

By the way, I believe that MT should assist the merc in navigating in dark areas(since it's primarily made for chasing spies, and doing that isn't easy in a pitch-blck room). Therefore, shadow inversion isn't all that bad as long as there is some way to make a non/or slow/-moving spy transparent.

[Gawain]

u can use emf for navigation purposes lol

[Valserp]

u can use emf for navigation purposes lol

So I switch on MT to chase a running spy lol, but we enter a dark room lol and I have to switch to emf just to navigate lol? So once we're out of the room lol and he's behind some cover lol I totally lose track of him lol woudn't that suck lol?

[InvisibleMan999]

You're almost trying to take the MT out of the game. I mean, medium range? Seriously, if we do something like that, we'll be just making something near a new DA. Beside, it seems, atleast to me, that you're trying to make MT something so useless, that it won't even be used.

Note that I'm  not saying spies can "run", just that they can move at their normal fast crouch.

Running should always be picked up by MT, regardless of range. At some distances or merc orientations however, I think you should be able to crouch move at normal speed.

Shame on you for running around when a merc is right in front of you with MT. And if he's with his back to you, how can you be sure that he's not with MT to move fast?

You do realize that by "move fast", you mean anything faster than going at your absolutely slowest crouching speed. 

[InvisibleMan999]

By the way, I believe that MT should assist the merc in navigating in dark areas(since it's primarily made for chasing spies, and doing that isn't easy in a pitch-blck room). Therefore, shadow inversion isn't all that bad as long as there is some way to make a non/or slow/-moving spy transparent.

Well, One of the easiest pursuit techniques is just to follow the spy's trail. After all, MT shows you that.

I wouldn't be against keeping shadow inversion and just making the spy transparent though. That sounds fine, though it would nerf MT quite a bit.

[Gui Brazil]

You're almost trying to take the MT out of the game. I mean, medium range? Seriously, if we do something like that, we'll be just making something near a new DA. Beside, it seems, atleast to me, that you're trying to make MT something so useless, that it won't even be used.

Note that I'm  not saying spies can "run", just that they can move at their normal fast crouch.

Running should always be picked up by MT, regardless of range. At some distances or merc orientations however, I think you should be able to crouch move at normal speed.

I know that you're saying walking at a normal speed and that, doesn't change my opinion about it.

Shame on you for running around when a merc is right in front of you with MT. And if he's with his back to you, how can you be sure that he's not with MT to move fast?

You do realize that by "move fast", you mean anything faster than going at your absolutely slowest crouching speed. 

I do know that, and that doesn't change my opinion about it, either.

[InvisibleMan999]

I do know that, and that doesn't change my opinion about it, either.

I'm kind of curious why you think that being able to move at normal crouch speeds at medium range while a merc's back is turned without setting off MT is so broken. I mean is it too much to ask that the merc at least be looking in the direction of the spy to sense him with such precision?

I'd really like to make MT less of a newb vision. It's bad enough to get the box when you're looking at the spy, it's even worse when your back is turned to the spy and he can't even fast crouch from cover to cover.

I mean, is it really that bad to ask that the merc at least face the right direction to pick up a spy on MT at medium ranges?  Lets have it require some degree of skill.

[Gawain]

invisible cmon ::)
the big problem with mt is overlooking huge areas from sniping spots, and the shadow inversion. there are already enough possibilities to play stealth, and mercs couldn't cover big maps like factory well if spies could move around mindlessly. and don't forget, the merc can turn his head like nuts...