What if...

[frvge]

this thread is worse than most threads.

People have become bored so they started arguing about nothing for the past few months just to keep busy.  Only like 2 threads have had any meaning recently.

The last Tick Tock gave you:
- A totally new level. Make a thread about it.
- A new, more fluid walljump/splitjump, with a bit of wallrunning in it. Make a thread about it.
- First shown Merc animations (now both textured). Discuss it, comment on it.

We want to make things better, but that's only possible with your comments.

A lack of comments doesn't mean it's perfect to us, because there's also absense of praise, but it means you guys don't know what to do with new things anymore. C'mon, start some threads about the things I mentioned and we'll see where we end up then.

[CurdyMilk]

this thread is worse than most threads.

People have become bored so they started arguing about nothing for the past few months just to keep busy.  Only like 2 threads have had any meaning recently.

The last Tick Tock gave you:
- A totally new level. Make a thread about it.
- A new, more fluid walljump/splitjump, with a bit of wallrunning in it. Make a thread about it.
- First shown Merc animations (now both textured). Discuss it, comment on it.

We want to make things better, but that's only possible with your comments.

A lack of comments doesn't mean it's perfect to us, because there's also absense of praise, but it means you guys don't know what to do with new things anymore. C'mon, start some threads about the things I mentioned and we'll see where we end up then.

Yes.  The tick tock was one of the few good threads that I was implying.  I wasn't complaining about a lack of updates.  It all looked good, and I didn't have any criticism (which is a good thing).  I'm just saying that in the past there have been good topics that community members have brought up for discussion, but now there isn't anything besides arguing.  I have tried to think of discussion topics based on the tick tock, but I couldn't think of much to say other than "it looks good."

[Spekkio]

I wasn't referring to that sentence. You said that "there are a lot of situations where you can safely suicide without any realistic  penalty for it, particularly as merc", so I assumed that you believe spawning without an equipment refill is a realistic penalty for it, which is why I brought up that I don't believe it is the realistic option.

You were referring to the exact sentence that I am talking about. More importantly, you didn't assume anything; you simply failed to have a basic level of reading comprehension.

I was not talking about realism with respect to 'happens in real life' at any point in this thread. It is you who does not know all the definitions of 'realistic.'

@Frvge,

Lowering the amount of lives does not fix the real issue, it just masks it. Also, what do you do about the tactic of spamming smoke non-stop to run out the gasmask so you can cam mercs easier in the late game? Now the merc has no way of compensating for that. That is an example of spies using equipment refills to their advantage in a cheesy tactic. The real issue is that players get rewarded for dying and punished for living longer.

@Whoever,

Yes, there is a 10 second out-of-commission penalty for dying, but that same penalty would exist either way. In most cases, that 10 second penalty will not inhibit someone from dying on purpose in order to refill their equipment.

@Cronky,

Yes, having a limited refill from ammo boxes that are able to be guarded would slow the game down in some ways, but speed it up in others. It would slow the game down in the aspect that spies will have to be more cautious with how they employ their equipment. One engagement of running around the map while spamming smokes/flash will put them out of equipment very early, and the spies will be forced to resort to more stealthy tactics to compensate, thus slowing down the game. On the other hand, the lack of 6 mines + spytraps/camnet on the map and a near full grenade loadout at almost all times will speed up the game because spies now know that there are a limited total number of mines that can be placed in a given game.

It also adds to the metagame strategy to have to choose between employing equipment in the early game, mid game, or end game. Do you place all your mines to start, or do you wait until you're down to the last objective? Do you use all your sticky cams early to try to get a jump, or do you save them for when the mercs are camping out in one spot? As a spy, do you go for objectives outright, or do you take it a little slower to go on a mine/trap hunt? These are things that players right now don't even have to consider because more equipment is just 1 death away.

[VaNilla]

I was not talking about realism with respect to 'happens in real life' at any point in this thread. It is you who does not know all the definitions of 'realistic.'

I read this incorrectly to assume you were talking about a different sentence, "it is beyond me how anyone could wrongly interpret my use of 'realistic' in that sentence as 'could happen in real life' when I clearly meant 'meaningful.'" I seen that and thought you were referring to a sentence which had that in it.

Additionally, I wasn't entirely responding in terms of general realism either. I mentioned realism in my post, but that wasn't the majority of it. All your doing is focusing on the word I used to compensate for your lack of general argument, join Misty underneath the bridge.

[Spark Mandriller]

I was not talking about realism with respect to 'happens in real life' at any point in this thread. It is you who does not know all the definitions of 'realistic.'

I didn't say you were.

I was also not the first person to bring up realism, as you will see below.

so yeah you actually kinda did claim he brought up realism stone

[VaNilla]

Realistic - Realism. Two words with many different shared connotations. Whether they were meant in the same way or not isn't the point, I didn't bring up the world 'real'. It's funny that you've spread almost 3 pages harping on about semantics, because you have no basis for an argument regarding what we were actually talking about; I made many points which you swiftly ignored (probably because you seen where I was coming from and instead of admitting that, hoped nobody would notice) and focused on 'OMG DOES HE THINK ITS REEEL?'. I think you're beginning to annoy the bridge :(.

[Spark Mandriller]

That's not that funny. What's funny is you spending three pages lying about what you said because you can't bear to admit you were wrong about something completely trivial. You think anyone would have cared if you'd have just laughed things off with an explanation that you'd read the post too fast and didn't linger on the unimportant bits? Instead we get you pretending that half the posts you made never happened, even though everyone can see them by just, y'know, going back a page. That's funny. Real funny.

Maybe you should spend less time trying to save face on an internet forum and more time developing basic reading comprehension so you can avoid repeats of this incident in future.


oh yeah and claiming that me pointing out how you're lying about what you said makes me a troll. that's funny too.

[Cronky]

@Cronky,

Yes, having a limited refill from ammo boxes that are able to be guarded would slow the game down in some ways, but speed it up in others. It would slow the game down in the aspect that spies will have to be more cautious with how they employ their equipment. One engagement of running around the map while spamming smokes/flash will put them out of equipment very early, and the spies will be forced to resort to more stealthy tactics to compensate, thus slowing down the game. On the other hand, the lack of 6 mines + spytraps/camnet on the map and a near full grenade loadout at almost all times will speed up the game because spies now know that there are a limited total number of mines that can be placed in a given game.

It also adds to the metagame strategy to have to choose between employing equipment in the early game, mid game, or end game. Do you place all your mines to start, or do you wait until you're down to the last objective? Do you use all your sticky cams early to try to get a jump, or do you save them for when the mercs are camping out in one spot? As a spy, do you go for objectives outright, or do you take it a little slower to go on a mine/trap hunt? These are things that players right now don't even have to consider because more equipment is just 1 death away.

That's where personal preference comes in. I'm not saying that this is a bad idea, but having a constant flow of defense filled by death seems more... enjoyable. Regardless of how you come about having full gadget ammo again, you are never left helpless.

Each life you are given an equal chance to turn the tides of the match. A spy with 1 life COULD win a game if they use their gadgets and skill right. It's improbable, but still gives a chance. With limited refills of ammo you could be left on your last life with no gadgets. The chance to win is still there, but it's significantly less probable. Even if the Merc is on the same boat.

Again, this is just what I prefer. The idea is workable, but I don't like the idea that if I play "Wrong" I could spend half a game without gadgets.

I'm just assuming that how it would be implemented is that you would have a limited amount of refills per game; 5 lives, 5 refills. Though it's up to you when you want to refill. Even if that means 5 refills on life 1, or 5 refills on life 5.

It does give depth, but would it really be fun? For me that's where I'm a little weary of it. Sounds like an idea that's fun in thought, but when you're the one stuck with no gadgets it'll be rage inducing. Even if you understand that it's completely your fault.

[monterto]

I don't think stone knows what the definition of a troll is...

[Gawain]

the whole gadget and respawn system could need a tweak. i stated that ages ago and no1 would listen.

maybe we can try out some changes as different game modes during beta.
from radical modes like no-respawn to little changes like mask refill and a 5th mandatory slot there's a lot of room for experiments.

[VaNilla]

[sad how you acknowledge the new sticky, but then still discard it. I hope you feel a bit better after writing that wall of text]

edit - In essence, my post pointed out that you cannot tell me how I interpreted a post, you don't have that knowledge. It also mentioned that you focus on semantics instead of actually responding to me. I'm not responding back and my other post explained why much better than this, before the edit.

[monterto]

Man, we're making frvge work!

Keep it up guys!