What if...

[unskilled]

For me  it's good idea but like someone said before basic problem is energy balance.
It's good idea because u can make "hardcore mod" in game. And only host can decide to use this mode on his server.
But hardcore mode cant has only one "hardcore" thing.U must add more "hardcore thing,movments or whatever"

pfu pfu pfu i say yes for this idea.

Omg, lets don't copy hardcore mode from simple fps like CoD ;/ It's bullshit :P

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Yeah, let's copy from Quake :D

[Spekkio]

Camo energy renews itself over time. about 6-8 seconds to full again if I remember correctly. The place where balance could be an issue is that some maps would require heavier use of visions where others you could do just fine without them. In the end, it's going to either be to short a duration for some maps and no different than SCCT is currently on other maps. For the most part visions are nearly useless to a Spy and will actually put you at a disadvantage so for a spy I would hazard a guess that you'd notice almost no change whatsoever.

So you don't use thermal vision to dodge passive lasers and detect poison mines and spytraps? What game are you playing?

[DreadStunLock]

Camo energy renews itself over time. about 6-8 seconds to full again if I remember correctly. The place where balance could be an issue is that some maps would require heavier use of visions where others you could do just fine without them. In the end, it's going to either be to short a duration for some maps and no different than SCCT is currently on other maps. For the most part visions are nearly useless to a Spy and will actually put you at a disadvantage so for a spy I would hazard a guess that you'd notice almost no change whatsoever.

So you don't use thermal vision to dodge passive lasers and detect poison mines and spytraps? What game are you playing?

I hardly ever use Thermal in Aqua, why? Cause I just press it once and switch it off in less than 0.5 secs...I know most hot spots anyway and Spy Traps dont bother me as much since I just dodge most of time I gues...

[Farley4Fan]

I actually kinda like this. It is pretty dumb when people spend the whole game in MT, and why wouldn't they right now? It'd be much cooler if it was something you turned on when you suspected something was up, like a gas mask, instead of just something you left on for the whole game. Making special visions special visions, instead of default visions.

I don't think anyone's ever gonna use NV if it drains your energy though.

Well because that would be a roundabout way of solving the MT problem.  The best way to do it would be to just make it so it's not so overpowered in the first place, since the devs have the power to do that.  No point in implementing an overpowered vision but slapping a time limit on it to make sure it is used less often.

But I have an idea if a time limit is decided as the way to go.  Maybe a meter like the spy energy meter would be best but with a twist.  You leave a little mark about 1/3 of the way up the meter as the minimum amount of energy required to use the flashlight.  The flashlight wouldn't drain the energy but you can't use the flashlight if you use visions enough to go past the mark.  It would recharge slowly.

tldr - So you could continue to use visions for a longer time but you know that you can't use flashlight for awhile.

[B1nArY_001]

Camo energy renews itself over time. about 6-8 seconds to full again if I remember correctly. The place where balance could be an issue is that some maps would require heavier use of visions where others you could do just fine without them. In the end, it's going to either be to short a duration for some maps and no different than SCCT is currently on other maps. For the most part visions are nearly useless to a Spy and will actually put you at a disadvantage so for a spy I would hazard a guess that you'd notice almost no change whatsoever.

So you don't use thermal vision to dodge passive lasers and detect poison mines and spytraps? What game are you playing?

For the most part means for the most part. Not entirely. Checking for poison mines, spy traps and laser mines only requires you to flick it on to briefly check a room or areas where you know a countermeasure is likely to be deployed. This brief activation would consume such a small amount of energy that the impact would be virtually nil. On the other hand, the impact it would have for a Merc and the direct correlation to making sure the map is balanced against energy consumption and smart usage of visions would be virtually impossible to balance across every map.

For example, you have a map that depicts a fairly open well lit location that won't require heavy vision usage to guard. Instead it relies on smart placement of countermeasures and a good patrol path/timing. 10-15s of vision would be plenty. Then you have a map that depicts a darker environment with a lot of objects scattered about that give the Spies multiple objects for cover they can move between quickly. The darkness plus the quick movement from cover spot to cover spot is going to require heavier vision use to spot a Spy. likely about double the amount of vision up-time you would need in the first example.

So now you have a couple choices -

1. Energy consumption that gives more than needed for 1 map and still not enough for the other
2. Energy consumption that gives way to much for 1 map and just enough for another (thus practically nullifying this system on some maps)
3. Base your map designs around energy consumption
4. Unique per-map energy consumption rates

Either way you look at it, some maps you would see a difference in and others it would have basically no impact and/or depicting certain map locations and conveying certain atmospheres would be further restricted.

All things considered, not a bad idea in itself, but the impact on mapping and game play would be to heavy in some cases and not enough in others to merit the system. The only way to guarantee this system had the proper impact across the board would be to have a unique energy consumption rate for each map which would require that extensive balance testing be done at different consumption rates on each and every map. Feasible but highly unrealistic given the team's resources.

Edit: It didn't seem to me that Spekkio was suggesting a countermeasure to MT whoring, but rather another system to make game play more dynamic. For anyone interested in proposed MT configurations to avoid using it exclusively, there are several pretty long threads with a lot of ideas.

[DreadStunLock]

Camo energy renews itself over time. about 6-8 seconds to full again if I remember correctly. The place where balance could be an issue is that some maps would require heavier use of visions where others you could do just fine without them. In the end, it's going to either be to short a duration for some maps and no different than SCCT is currently on other maps. For the most part visions are nearly useless to a Spy and will actually put you at a disadvantage so for a spy I would hazard a guess that you'd notice almost no change whatsoever.

So you don't use thermal vision to dodge passive lasers and detect poison mines and spytraps? What game are you playing?

At least it will keep noobs from constantly having their vision on...
For the most part means for the most part. Not entirely. Checking for poison mines, spy traps and laser mines only requires you to flick it on to briefly check a room or areas where you know a countermeasure is likely to be deployed. This brief activation would consume such a small amount of energy that the impact would be virtually nil. On the other hand, the impact it would have for a Merc and the direct correlation to making sure the map is balanced against energy consumption and smart usage of visions would be virtually impossible to balance across every map.

For example, you have a map that depicts a fairly open well lit location that won't require heavy vision usage to guard. Instead it relies on smart placement of countermeasures and a good patrol path/timing. 10-15s of vision would be plenty. Then you have a map that depicts a darker environment with a lot of objects scattered about that give the Spies multiple objects for cover they can move between quickly. The darkness plus the quick movement from cover spot to cover spot is going to require heavier vision use to spot a Spy. likely about double the amount of vision up-time you would need in the first example.

So now you have a couple choices -

1. Energy consumption that gives more than needed for 1 map and still not enough for the other
2. Energy consumption that gives way to much for 1 map and just enough for another (thus practically nullifying this system on some maps)
3. Base your map designs around energy consumption
4. Unique per-map energy consumption rates

Either way you look at it, some maps you would see a difference in and others it would have basically no impact and/or depicting certain map locations and conveying certain atmospheres would be further restricted.

All things considered, not a bad idea in itself, but the impact on mapping and game play would be to heavy in some cases and not enough in others to merit the system. The only way to guarantee this system had the proper impact across the board would be to have a unique energy consumption rate for each map which would require that extensive balance testing be done at different consumption rates on each and every map. Feasible but highly unrealistic given the team's resources.

Edit: It didn't seem to me that Spekkio was suggesting a countermeasure to MT whoring, but rather another system to make game play more dynamic. For anyone interested in proposed MT configurations to avoid using it exclusively, there are several pretty long threads with a lot of ideas.

[B1nArY_001]

The "At least it will keep noobs from constantly having their vision on..." that you inserted there at the top was NOT in my post.

[Spekkio]

Maybe it's a personal thing, but I practically play the game in MT, EMF, and thermal vision. On top of allowing you to see passive defenses, thermal also highlights the mercs better. Against most people you don'y have to worry much about EMF, and the only time I really take thermal off is if I'm behind some surface EMF can see through. There's really no reason to take it off otherwise.

[B1nArY_001]

Maybe it's a personal thing, but I practically play the game in MT, EMF, and thermal vision. On top of allowing you to see passive defenses, thermal also highlights the mercs better. Against most people you don'y have to worry much about EMF, and the only time I really take thermal off is if I'm behind some surface EMF can see through. There's really no reason to take it off otherwise.

Your probably right. I used thermal at first until I memorized the locations of the passive lasers in SCCT, after that almost never. As a merc I tend to use both EMF and MT equally but only for a few seconds each while I do a quick scan of the area. The only exception being extremely dark areas where the vision mode helps me keep my bearings or against heavily aggressive spies to help combat the restricted vision imposed by a gas mask and smoke.

[DreadStunLock]

The "At least it will keep noobs from constantly having their vision on..." that you inserted there at the top was NOT in my post.

Oh my god....I so screwed that up...

[zglina]

For me  it's good idea but like someone said before basic problem is energy balance.
It's good idea because u can make "hardcore mod" in game. And only host can decide to use this mode on his server.
But hardcore mode cant has only one "hardcore" thing.U must add more "hardcore thing,movments or whatever"

pfu pfu pfu i say yes for this idea.

Omg, lets don't copy hardcore mode from simple fps like CoD ;/ It's bullshit :P

Why not?pain in ass? Hardcore mode dont belong only to the CoD. Btw. When i wrote this post i didnt think about CoD but about spekkio idea.

[Spark Mandriller]

Well because that would be a roundabout way of solving the MT problem.  The best way to do it would be to just make it so it's not so overpowered in the first place, since the devs have the power to do that.  No point in implementing an overpowered vision but slapping a time limit on it to make sure it is used less often.

It would make special visions a lot more special if you couldn't leave them on all game, though. Wouldn't that be cool? You think there's a guy around, so you turn on MT and scan for him. That's way cooler than just leaving it on all the time.

[Westfall]

I like he energy consumption idea. Thinking further, maybe have it act like a battery that drains and can only be refilled (not necessarily at ammo locations) when it drains to below 25%? No? Then batter that drains is cashed and you now have a new gadget....battery refills, also available in backpack?....No? Maybe have a battery that doesn't refill, more of a one and done? Just some thoughts that went through my head. I think we discussed batteries with HB sensor. They would work better with the visions though. Thoughts?

[Farley4Fan]

Well because that would be a roundabout way of solving the MT problem.  The best way to do it would be to just make it so it's not so overpowered in the first place, since the devs have the power to do that.  No point in implementing an overpowered vision but slapping a time limit on it to make sure it is used less often.

It would make special visions a lot more special if you couldn't leave them on all game, though. Wouldn't that be cool? You think there's a guy around, so you turn on MT and scan for him. That's way cooler than just leaving it on all the time.

Well I don't leave it on all the time personally but that's a fair point.  But think about the Batman AA.  People left that x-ray vision on the whole game.  The developers are just making the vision more balanced rather than using a time limit thing.  I see what you're saying though.  It might be a good idea to make the visions more of a resource than an alternate way to view things at all times.  I'm not sure really.