Suggestions for PS from Double Agent

[NeoSuperior]

Don't forget the lightning<->thunder delay. Lightning, in most cases, comes a few seconds earlier than thunder.

[VaNilla]

Aha that is true, thanks for the feedback from you both. Been thinling about it all day since I posted, but I've been dying to make a small animated video to demonstrate the idea. The problem is I don't have the time :(

[Vega]

I think a large part of the learning curve and confusion comes from the fact that the way sound behaves in CT is ill defined. A large part of that comes from the shitty sound engine -- some surfaces can be heard across the map while others can't, and the same surface is heard differently in different maps. Another part of that, though, is that the actions which set off the reticle are never defined in the game manual, and not all the actions are intuitive (taking out the gun with the laser on vs. laser off, for example). That is mostly why I decided to write the noob guide back in the beta days. And yet another problem is that it's an all-or-nothing system -- you either crawl along at a snail's pace and don't set off the reticle, or move quickly and you do. There is no medium, and when the clock is on the merc's side, going that slow all the time so that the merc's can't hear your footsteps in a vent can be a huge detriment.

After looking back at this thread and changing my opinion about the presence detector, this post pretty much sums up my thoughts about CT's sound engine (although not about alarm snares. I still think a modified version of the decoy from DA would be more balanced). The sound detector shouldn't go crazy as soon as a spy moves at anything but a snail's pace. I would actually love to see the sound meter from the Chaos Theory's single player campaign. Imagine if it functioned just like it did in the original game.

As the player moves through the map, the threshold of the sound metre would dynamically change in real time depending on the ambient sound within the area, and/or the range of the sound detector. Anything from gunshots to weather effects and even missle strikes would dynamically change the threshold of the sound metre; this would be represented with a line on the sound meter. Like this.



Spies and Mercenaries would both have the same sound metre on their HUD except for one major difference. While the Spies would use the meter to stay silent, the mercs use the meter to monitor the sound produced by Spies. The sound meter would be used to find reckless spies, while the sound reticule displays where the sound is coming from with arrows (just like CT's multiplayer).

Imagine playing Warehouse from Pandora Tommorow during a winter storm. The rain is splashing against the ground, and the atmosphere is cold and grey, set around 4pm. You can both see and hear the rain in full view outside the warehouse at the spies spawn. This sets the sound metre wild, easily placing the threshold half way up the sound meter. Inside the warehouse the air feels different. The natural light is just as dull as it was outside, but darker under cover of the Warehouse's aging roof. The light parses through tiny white windows on the left side of the Warehouse, and is offset by bright harsh lights throughout the Warehouse. The shadows stick out like sore thumbs, providing ample opportunity for stealthy players to sneak by undetected. The lights inside the first sector flicker into motion as the first player enters the room, be it Spies or Mercenaries. Not only is this very creepy, but also gives either team a quick opportunity to get into position through the cover of darkness. At random intervals lightning strikes; the light flashes through the windows, lighting up the whole sector for a split second. The main lights shut down as the lightning strikes, but quickly flicker back to life 3 seconds later. Imagine sneaking in front of a Mercenary and lining up the perfect takedown, only to be spotted as the Mercenary you've just scared shitless shoots you down! However, despite momentarily losing the cover of shadows, one big advantage for the spies is that these lightning strikes are very loud indeed. The sound threshold flys off the charts, allowing spies the chance to quickly run straight through the map without being heard by the Mercenaries, if only for 1 second as the lightning rumbles away. This is the type of gameplay that could be possible only with the inclusion of a sound meter! I hope this helped you understand my vision for the game.

I think the sound meter would greatly improve the game, as well as significantly balancing the overpowered sound reticule from Chaos Theory. It would also greatly diversify the gameplay, as you wouldn't necessarily have to crawl around the map to remain undetected. Thoughts?

Solid idea, I really like it.  It takes the current sound retical in CT but enhances it through the use of the sound meter and its relation to the map's dynamic sound feedback.  This is what CT should have had but EAX cancelled this out for all intents and purposes since spy movement could still be interpreted by the player.  I actually think this idea is present in CT already to some degree (when players are near large fans, for example) but I could be wrong.  Either way, it's a nice idea that enhances the game.

[Cronky]

Like everyone else, I'm liking the addition of this sound meter. It seems like something that was in CT, but it was hidden. Having it in the open would make it easier to determine what you did that made noise, rather than just assuming or having to read up on what makes what amount of sound, and where can you get away with it.

I know I have a question about this, but the more I think about it, the more it sounds dumb. Basically, would such things as said Thunder/Lightning show up on a Merc's sound reticule (not sound meter)? I assume at the very least the Spy simply wouldn't show up in that small window of loud sound, but would the loud sound register and point them towards a direction?

There might not be an answer to this, but I was wondering what yours or anyone's thoughts are on that situation.

[VaNilla]

I know I have a question about this, but the more I think about it, the more it sounds dumb. Basically, would such things as said Thunder/Lightning show up on a Merc's sound reticule (not sound meter)? I assume at the very least the Spy simply wouldn't show up in that small window of loud sound, but would the loud sound register and point them towards a direction?

No. Ambient sound would dynamically effect the sound threshold in real time (the little box on the meter). This threshold signifies the level of ambient sound in the area and/or the range of sound detector. If the Spies produce more sound than the ambient sound in the room, arrows will appear around the merc's crosshair pointing to the direction the sound is coming from. The arrows only point to sounds created by the Spies, whether that be exploding mines, footsteps, sticky shocker bullets, or even sticky cams. Ambient sound is displayed only by the threshold on the sound meter. The Mercenaries would see the same sound meter on their HUD as the Spies, except the Mercs meter would only pick up sounds that exceed the threshold of the ambient sound. The actions of Mercenaries would also effect the threshold, so if they're shooting fully automatic or charging into a wall then the threshold would raise up the meter.

Spy: 
Merc:

Alternatively the Merc's meter could show the sound produced by the Spies on it's own scale, as long as the level of sound exceeds the threshold of the ambient sound. This would be considerably less confusing for Mercenaries. Instead of showing the threshold sliding around the meter, it would only show the information that's actually useful to the Mercenaries. However, not knowing the threshold of the ambient sound could be confusing in it's own way. We need to find a solution for the Mercenaries that displays both the threshold and the sound produced by the Spies without sacrificing clarity.

[Cronky]

Here's a scenario:

A Merc has found a spy. He proceeds to unload his clip all unskillful-like. The Spy is running full tilt to escape...

Who is louder? Does the sound of a Merc's gun outweigh the sound of the Spy's steps at full speed, thus making his escape easier if the Merc just decides to simply spray n' pray?

(I'm not knocking the idea at all with these kinds of posts. I'm just figuring out how you would deal with these types of situations since this is your idea.)

[VaNilla]

Here's a scenario:

A Merc has found a spy. He proceeds to unload his clip all unskillful-like. The Spy is running full tilt to escape...

Who is louder? Does the sound of a Merc's gun outweigh the sound of the Spy's steps at full speed, thus making his escape easier if the Merc just decides to simply spray n' pray?

(I'm not knocking the idea at all with these kinds of posts. I'm just figuring out how you would deal with these types of situations since this is your idea.)

It would depend on how close the Spy is to the Mercenary, as well as the surface the Spy is standing on. If they were standing in the grass close by then yes, the Merc's gun would raise the threshold of the ambient sound in the area. This would eclipse the sound produced by the Spy, and he would not show up on the Merc's reticule. However if he was running on a steel bridge with shards of broken glass littered across the surface, then the sound of the Spy may still eclipse the threshold of the ambient sound, if only slightly. I think this would really help to balance the gameplay between both teams, because the sound reticule is currently far too powerful in my opinion. It's one of many reasons why Merc's tend to win the round in CT, providing both teams are evenly matched.

[Farley4Fan]

If there aren't a ton of different speeds for the spy, I don't really see a point to the sound meter.  This seems like a good idea but also a ton of work for the map makers.

[VaNilla]

I was under the impression that movement is fully analogue rather than being either 'slow' or 'fast'. I also would have thought this would require minimal effort on the part of map makers. All they would have to do is set a type of material for each model in the map, the sound engine would take care of the rest. I am by no means a programmer or level designer, so I simply do not know. I just have ideas.

[Spark Mandriller]

If there aren't a ton of different speeds for the spy, I don't really see a point to the sound meter.  This seems like a good idea but also a ton of work for the map makers.

A map with random events that make noise sounds pretty cool though.

[Cronky]

I also would have thought this would require minimal effort on the part of map makers. All they would have to do is set a type of material for each model in the map, the sound engine would take care of the rest. I am by no means a programmer or level designer, so I simply do not know. I just have ideas.

It seems like Farley is talking about simply the act of setting up a level with different ambient noises and how that might be hard. Imagine making your version of Warehouse you described it. Lightning striking isn't a material type, it's not on the ground, it isn't triggered by the Spy or the Merc and (at least how it sounds) it's not set on some sort of interval.

Taking in the fact that you already have to try and balance out the layout of a level and the lighting of a level, it seems like adding on top of that you'd have to balance the sound of a level, since it relates to what the Merc will actually get feedback for, would get a little complex. Though that's just my guess.

[Farley4Fan]

I thought that there are two speeds for spy in PS.  Not sure.

I was saying it would be hard to make the zones of noise.  It is like that in single player, obviously, where a generator or some shizz would raise the threshold in a certain area.  Adding random lightning/thunder would be easier than that I believe, since it's just a script.  Like Cronky said this could get a little complex. 

I do like the idea though.  I guess mappers wouldn't have to go hog wild making every area a different noise threshold, and maybe only use it in a few spots. 

[frvge]

We currently only have 2 speeds.

[VaNilla]

Ah :(