Deathmatch balancing

[DreadStunLock]

From the topic of plain versus I see a lot of people asking for DM to become reality.

How about discussing on how to maybe balance the deathmatch mode? For example one of the people mentioned to me:

"How about torchlight that requires energy?"

In my opinion torchlight is the most overpowered in deathmatch, due to the fact that mercenaries get flares and with a torchlight, they have really no reason to use flares due to the fact the flares already illuminates 75% more of the area than the torchlight. And as on the topic before where I think B1nary had an idea of visions work on energy, Visions and Torchlight with energy would really work nicely and give spies another good edge of reversing THE BIG OL' "being weaker than mercenaries"

[LennardF1989]

Would love to see this being discussed to have a bit of diversity in gametypes!

[savov]

If we are talking about the old school DM on Deftech Belew (rifles and outside only) I cant really think of any unbalanced things. ::) Considering in PS there wont be any "host" kills. The only think I can come up with is that sometimes as spy its too easy just to jump/roll on merc's head for insta kill. But that goes for big open spaces like outside of deftech.

[DreadStunLock]

Yeah except noone in a right mind will care about outside only or no rail camp, if the spies are proving to be too difficult they will jump on the rail and blow their heads off. But the fact is in versus right now I only play as a mercenary because trying to win with a random as a spy is just not too much of a challenge but more like too time wasting.

But in anyway, back on topic Torchlight ran on energy = ?

[Gawain]

i never got the point of playing dm - story mode is simply better in all regards.

it's not like you couldn't play a deadly style in story mode, it's just that idiots don't understand the gameplay dynamic.

[Spark Mandriller]

The problem with DM is that mercs are better than spies at head on confrontations, and if they camp the spies have to come to them. We just have to come up with a reason to make mercs move about, and preferably split up, and things should be fine. Maybe put in some sorta objectives for mercs in DM? Make it so each area in the map is worth points for staying in, up to a limit, so they just have to wander about to keep scoring. Kind of a change, I know, but it's still a mode where spies just have to kill the enemy team, and mercs are pretty obvious so it won't be like CT where noobs could go through a whole game without seeing the other team.

[Farley4Fan]

I like where Misty is going.

I like the idea of "objectives" in DM, but another route would be something like Aquarius did.  Put a bunch of things like hack panels that would give one team an advantage.  One hack panel could turn off lights, another could cut off access to a room with ammunition.  Another could shut off cam nets or block their views.  There have to be things to guard and attack even on DM (not just each other)

[Cronky]

i never got the point of playing dm - story mode is simply better in all regards.

it's not like you couldn't play a deadly style in story mode, it's just that idiots don't understand the gameplay dynamic.

I liked DM (when I played) because, as a spy, you got to focus on something you weren't supposed to in Story Mode: Killing the other team.

Sure, you could do that in story mode also, but in DM both teams were on the same page. So you aren't trying to make a "Deathmatch" out of story mode simply because all the Merc's defenses are around the objectives.

Fun Challenge.

Make it so each area in the map is worth points for staying in, up to a limit, so they just have to wander about to keep scoring. Kind of a change, I know, but it's still a mode where spies just have to kill the enemy team, and mercs are pretty obvious so it won't be like CT where noobs could go through a whole game without seeing the other team.

I like this idea. Though it should be made into a mode all itself. Sounds like it could be fun.

I think Farley has a more appropriate idea when it comes to keeping it strictly a Deathmatch. Instead of some "Deathmatch/Point Capture" hybrid. Mode specific map elements. They are cool. :)

[CurdyMilk]

Deathmatch would be fine, but it is hard to make a story map work well for DM as well.  It could work well if maps are designed specifically for it. 

I like the idea of having Merc objectives.  It wouldn't need to be called deathmatch because it could still be considered story in a "reverse" mode, where the spies have to kill the mercs to stop them.  The mercs could be required to reach a certain number of locations in a map (more or less depending on the map) and activate terminals by simply pressing a button.  Like disk hunt, only it does not reset each time the merc dies.  This would require the merc to move around quite a bit while watching his back.  It would also work well for story maps.  Interesting!

[LennardF1989]

The problem with DM is that mercs are better than spies at head on confrontations, and if they camp the spies have to come to them. We just have to come up with a reason to make mercs move about, and preferably split up, and things should be fine. Maybe put in some sorta objectives for mercs in DM? Make it so each area in the map is worth points for staying in, up to a limit, so they just have to wander about to keep scoring. Kind of a change, I know, but it's still a mode where spies just have to kill the enemy team, and mercs are pretty obvious so it won't be like CT where noobs could go through a whole game without seeing the other team.

I like your thinking here, why not have a story mode where Mercs are the attackers and spies the defenders? It would be like deathmatch, but in order to let the mercenaries win, they actually have to work for it.

[Farley4Fan]

I always thought that was an interesting idea.  The maps would be PITCH BLACK.  Lots of nooks and crannies/passageways and they would be really vertical - to give spies an ungodly advantage.  They would have to literally own the map if the mercs would be the attackers.  Maybe merc objectives would require mercs to be in two different places at one time.  They would have to synchronize their hacks or whatever the objectives are.

[LennardF1989]

I always thought that was an interesting idea.  The maps would be PITCH BLACK.  Lots of nooks and crannies/passageways and they would be really vertical - to give spies an ungodly advantage.  They would have to literally own the map if the mercs would be the attackers.  Maybe merc objectives would require mercs to be in two different places at one time.  They would have to synchronize their hacks or whatever the objectives are.

It would for the least make DM more interesting and less brainless, note though that a mercenary would be vurnable while hacking, so synchronization would be cool, but not required to get a kill. It would also force spies to be more aggro (in case mercenaries group up), but not in the sense they already know they are gonna lose anyway, because Mercs have to focus on something in order to win.

[DreadStunLock]

As well as, it would be interesting to make hack panels more rewarding, for example lights should be off everywhere literally, and if a mercenary is going to turn them on, it should not be a 1 second touch of a button and done, I believe that because when a machine is being hacked it can also be damaged, so it would make sense if a mercenary would crouch and try fix it for xx duration of time maybe even longer than a spy, and it would take him couple of seconds to get off it, meaning he would need a teammate support.

[Cronky]

As well as, it would be interesting to make hack panels more rewarding, for example lights should be off everywhere literally, and if a mercenary is going to turn them on, it should not be a 1 second touch of a button and done, I believe that because when a machine is being hacked it can also be damaged, so it would make sense if a mercenary would crouch and try fix it for xx duration of time maybe even longer than a spy, and it would take him couple of seconds to get off it, meaning he would need a teammate support.

They should just make a gadget that "SUPER HAXX" a panel. Leading to Mercs actually having a duration of fixing it. Do they spend the extra time to unhack it leaving themselves vulnerable, or do they just keep a closer eye on their surroundings.

This way Story Mode could have some fun with Ultra-Mega hacked panels (At the cost of a gadget slot).

In terms of what you said about the lights though.... not ALL the lights. Seems kinda dumb if you just have one panel that controls all lights in a level. Multiple panels for multiple sections of lights (among other things) means the Mercs still have to move around.

Maybe I'm expecting too much though.

[Spark Mandriller]

Panels which take time to fix aren't such a good idea. We want to encourage mercs to split up, and this basically forces them to stick together.

I like this idea. Though it should be made into a mode all itself. Sounds like it could be fun.

Maybe it'll get as popular as disk hunt. :V