How do you think PS would play if the spy had a pistol?

[DreadStunLock]

I will stay positive about this, but for now I see this useless, maybe once I hit my head it will work :) But keep going, don't let me de-motivate you.

[Cronky]

An example of a Map Specific use of the pistol would be if say... the drop box in Aquarius "Pirate Room" didn't have a button that dropped it. Instead you had to shoot it off. SS couldn't do it because it doesn't use bullets.

---

Gun specific choice could be if say... in Station. There are those windows that you can use a wall hack outside to open.

Say the wall hacks weren't there, instead it was all powered by a generator. The generator is located outside where both Spies and Mercs have an open shot at it. Imagine also that turning off the generator, while opening the windows, closes the vents outside (for examples sake). You have a choice here with 1 player wielding a SS and 1 player wielding a pistol. Both work on it, but in different ways.

Using the SS on it will temporarily open the Windows and close the vents. After a duration, the vents will open and the windows will close again.

Using the Pistol on it will destroy the generator. You will always have the windows open now, but the vents will always be closed.

If the CT Co-op OCP deal was added to the pistol, then you could potentially do what the SS guy does also, but you yourself wouldn't be able to take advantage of the opening you made. (You must keep the gun on what you are disabling)

---

The same kind of deal could be place on Static Defenses that aren't specifically protected from both guns.

SS can disable a Motion detector for... 10 seconds (Not sure how long it actually does). The pistol can shoot the same Motion detector and put it offline for 20-30 seconds. Both giving off a warning to the Merc that something somewhere is disabled.

If the OCP thing was again implemented into the pistol, then a Spy could use it to disable a defense for their teammate, and in doing so with it would not give a warning off to the Merc. The disadvantage again being that you yourself could never take advantage of these openings you're giving.

---

The OCP would also drain your energy while in use.

(Again, this is how I see it and like it... And I think that's all I have to really say about it.)

[DreadStunLock]

OMG! Cronky!

I forgot about OCP, would be nice if both of the spies were able to equip a silenced pistol with OCP, and be able to disable a security system without setting off security failure, but the spy has to have his OCP on a green light on the specific static defense, and not move away his crosshair from it, as well as the OCP should have an energy bar draining and refilling.

[Cronky]

Yup.

I see the pistol more as a support weapon than a lethal Merc murderer. You're able to disable for longer, but can only do it a limited amount of times. You can help a teammate bypass securities silently, but cannot do the same for yourself. Even when you're out of ammo though, you still have the OCP to work with and help your teammate out a little bit. Mixing it up with 1 player taking each weapon could prove to be an interesting strategy.

I assume the "Energy bar" would just be the same one that powers your Optical Camo.

[Wh1tE_Dw4rF]

How about an OCP attached to the spy's wrist gadget? Doesn't have to be attached to a pistol now or does it?

[DreadStunLock]

What I think we are missing here, we see Silenced Pistol as a Lethal weapon, why not make Silenced Pistol a bit more of a....specific gadget to fire out specific more modified and more powerful gadgets? Like, silent sticky cameras/snares/spy bullets? No? Ok.

The thing is, bullets don't seem to mix that well with a shadownet spy, better....

Crap before I forget, can Project Stealth developers PLEASE! Oh god, please make a design for a katana on a shadownet spy like in Halo, I think it would be really amazing!

Anyway back to topic, shadownet spies won't really look spy type if they have bullets. So maybe we can change lethal bullets into something different?

By the way since I am so pumped with excitment, we can allow spies to have a bandana with long strips to be more like a ninja type of a thing, note I AM NOT TRYING TO CHANGE PS INTO SOME ANCIENT JAPANESE NINJA GAME!

I mean Spartans in Halo 3 had a katana on their back just for the cool look, PS can always have something similiar, and WHY......THE.......FLOWER......NOT!?

Back to topic, no in depth talk about the ninja outfit talk, just a bit.

Cronky@: Definately, also it can be possible to have a small clip next to the gadget, so once you run out of that energy, he will reload and have minimal amount of that ability to use OCP, after the clips run out, it's just normal energy for tazer.

Wh1tE_Dw4rF@ That another good thing, animation believe it or not can suit very well from the Buzz Lightyear on Toy Story, and why not?

[Spekkio]

I really can't find the use of a pistol that would take less than 10% of merc's health away. Mercs typically don't lose health in small percentages like that due to the nature of the spy's offensive arsenal, and health boxes and teammate heal are generally more accessible to them. Pelting a merc with 15 rounds before he notices enough to kill you would be impossible.

The only case I can see this being useful is when the merc falls off a cliff giving him <20% health and you somehow were able to know this before you start shooting at him.

[DreadStunLock]

That why we are brainstorming, instead of saying it's a bad idea, come up with something different, don't think of silenced pistol as a lethal weapon it's in real world, think of a pistol that can do damage in a different way, or benefit the spies more in a different way.

As well as, Silenced pistol can be a substitute for a Tazer, meaning Silenced Pistol has something better, and it cannot stun a mercenary or disable the security grid unlike tazer that can do that, but can't do something that a Silenced Pistol can.

[Cronky]

How about an OCP attached to the spy's wrist gadget? Doesn't have to be attached to a pistol now or does it?

Depends on if you mean for the wrist gadget to be an alternative weapon, like DA's wrist deal, or if they can just take the OCP as a gadget in general.

If you meant the DA wrist deal, then it has been talked about a lot, and not a lot can be made up to make it "Work". The pistol works easier (in my mind) because it's essentially just a modified SS. Both shoot, both disable stuf, both do something to the merc, etc etc. It's easy to put new parameters on something that's already there (in a brainstorming sense, I'm sure it's equally as hard to actually implement it). Making it a pistol just makes sense in the context of the idea.

If you mean they can take it as a gadget freely, then that just lessens the reason why you would bring the pistol at all. Without it on the pistol you would be near useless one you ran out of the 12 bullets you have on hand. It's also a unique thing that not bringing the SS would give you. Much in the same way that you could HARM Mercs with the Pistol. Killing them would be tougher than just trying to neck break them though, but if they're low on health then it might be possible.

(Like spekkio said, if they someone were under a certain percentage of health and you somehow knew that)

@Dread
A.) ...don't talk about how "Bullets don't mix well with shadownet spies" then go on about a Katana.

B.) You lost me on the clip thing.

@Spekkio
That's true if thought that the gun should be used to kill Mercs somehow.

[DreadStunLock]

How about an OCP attached to the spy's wrist gadget? Doesn't have to be attached to a pistol now or does it?

Depends on if you mean for the wrist gadget to be an alternative weapon, like DA's wrist deal, or if they can just take the OCP as a gadget in general.

If you meant the DA wrist deal, then it has been talked about a lot, and not a lot can be made up to make it "Work". The pistol works easier (in my mind) because it's essentially just a modified SS. Both shoot, both disable stuf, both do something to the merc, etc etc. It's easy to put new parameters on something that's already there (in a brainstorming sense, I'm sure it's equally as hard to actually implement it). Making it a pistol just makes sense in the context of the idea.

No no no, the Katana thing is just a prop, you can't use it or anything it's just a fashion statement.

If you mean they can take it as a gadget freely, then that just lessens the reason why you would bring the pistol at all. Without it on the pistol you would be near useless one you ran out of the 12 bullets you have on hand. It's also a unique thing that not bringing the SS would give you. Much in the same way that you could HARM Mercs with the Pistol. Killing them would be tougher than just trying to neck break them though, but if they're low on health then it might be possible.

(Like spekkio said, if they someone were under a certain percentage of health and you somehow knew that)

@Dread
A.) ...don't talk about how "Bullets don't mix well with shadownet spies" then go on about a Katana.

B.) You lost me on the clip thing.

@Spekkio
That's true if thought that the gun should be used to kill Mercs somehow.

[Spekkio]

That why we are brainstorming, instead of saying it's a bad idea, come up with something different, don't think of silenced pistol as a lethal weapon it's in real world, think of a pistol that can do damage in a different way, or benefit the spies more in a different way.

What's the point of "doing damage in a different way?" The merc has four states in SvM: He is fully capable of killing you, he is stunned, he is KO, or he is dead. He doesn't lose any of his fighting capabilities gradually based on health, so what use is taking away 15% of his health by pelting him with a pea-shooter twice? The risk is that you give away your position and have a high probability of getting killed, while the gain is that you annoy the merc slightly and have a very low probability of killing him on the off-chance that he's walking around with very little health.

It's not something I'd use, and it's not something I can see most people using once they get past the "wow this is new" factor.

[Wh1tE_Dw4rF]

From the design philosophy the spies aren't brought into action to harm the mercs. They are there to avoid them. If you give spies a lethal gadget, to clarify, a direct lethal gadget, the whole design philosophy is thrown out of the window and a new way of winning a round opens up. (Think of hacking a terminal to give away your position then hide somewhere along the path the merc would come and pop lead in the back of his head and continue hacking).

I think everyone would enjoy having the OCP made a standard spy gadget. Reduce the range so you have the SS for mid to long range and the OCP as a (fast) CQC tool. The OCP would work the same on the merc's headgear as it would on a defensive trap. As long as you're aiming at the merc the vision would interfere similiar than that of using a SS but he wont be stunned. This would make a nice tactic to take out a merc if you're working together rather than running both around the merc trying your luck at who gets his neck first.

Cooperative spy teams will love being able to take their pace and get by defensive traps using the OCP rather than chaff'ing their way trough them.

It should work on many, maybe even most electronic devices found around the map as long as you channel the OCP on it. (Lights, cameras, lasers etc.)

Remember that it's all balanced around the fact the spy has to aim at the object at all times and can only move that fast while doing so. He probably also lights up as a 4th of july bonfire on the mercs EM vision.

[Cronky]

-stuff-

You bring up good points. I was only thinking of it in the mindset of how the pistol would be used.

Well put sir. Very well put.

I must say though, I'm astounded by how off put I am from your sig. :P

[Farley4Fan]

Dwarf, you would want a knife to stab stab stab some poor merc that you probably bound/gagged and realized was a blonde girl all along.

Not a bad idea though.

The only way a pistol that does a small amount of damage would  even be effective is if the spy just jumped on a merc and brought him down to half health.  Then it would take what?  5 shots?  I guess it could be effective if both spies brought a gun but then would it be OP?

The time to talk about damage isn't now.  There are so many variables we aren't considering because we aren't testing it.  An easy way to test it w/o making a pistol assett would be to make the ss do some damage.  It's one thing that I know from my limited game making experience would be easy to do.  It's a simple action/effect command except maybe a bit more complex if damage is dealt based upon where the target was hit.  Mess with it a bit until a sweet spot is found.

The knife is interesting.  It could replace ss.  

The attack would be the same kind of deal as an elbow except a slightly different animation I suppose.  If I had to guess I'd say it could work with 3 or 4 hits = a kill.  Who knows.  

Sounds interesting though.  I can imagine 2 spies using it where 2 "elbow hits" from each would result in a kill.  If one spy goes down then it's up to the other spy to knife him more, which would be difficult.  To give the knife some extra use maybe it could be used to cut wires on the map, disable mines and hack them, a quicker kill animation after a grab, who knows?

I would say that could only work in deathmatch, but I'm not sure if it wouldn't work in story given that the combat wouldn't be drastically changed like with the addition of a pistol.  Thoughts?

[Wh1tE_Dw4rF]

Nothing should replace the elbow blow, at least not the frontal one.

Just as in single-player SCCT you would have the option to grab or expose of the merc using knife. (non-lethal/lethal, although one might question just how non-lethal a broken neck is.) Remember this is not a fencing game thus we shouldn't sport spies flailing their knife about trying to piñata a merc.

I can't say much about if it would be manageable in terms of playable/round time but it would give a spy 3 ways of disabling a terminal.

1.) Temporarily shut it down trough OCP that gives no feedback at all to the merc not even that there's something going on.
2.) Breaking it with your knife in a short time but making somewhat noise and alerting the merc of that specific security failure.
3.) Hacking the terminal taking some time but won't make a noise and gives only a vague global security alert to the merc.

There you have 3 play options. The cooperative kind, the aggro kind and the silent team kind.

This is without the implementation of a pistol.