System requirements...

[Tal]

you didnt seem to understand it when i said read his last post so I thought ill make it simple for you  ;)

Maybe we will find more programmers but who knows how long thatll take... seems like this project has been going on since last year and its still looking for programmers but only one (overstatement) was found...  :(

[Bionic-Blob]

maybe because theres nothing for the programmers to do till UT3 comes out?

[iservealot]

It doesnt matter that overstatement is the only programmer we have at the moment. It makes no sense why we would script entire new partsof the engine to what we want in an open source engine,
when that learning time can be better used learning Uscript, as UE3 already has plenty of things that PS can take advantage of.

[Overstatement]

Furthermore, UE3 lets us intregrate physics with animations, to allow for the most accurate simulations. Not to mention it has a great animation blending system, which you would need to code from scratch in OGRE to be anywhere near as efficent as it is in UE3

OGRE with ODE does both. And here comes the old "Companies > Open projects"...piracy, who's winning? The company solely created to everything possible to prevent piracy that it will screw up some people's CDdrives(you know who I'm talking about) or a group of programmers who've hacked it in weeks. OGRE was created with contributions of many experts all over the world, Unreal3 was made by experinced but limited (relatively) group of people.

There is a whole internet full that explains Unreal Script to you

No, it doesn't. How many times have I referred to scripting as "undocumented"? This is my number 1 reason that learning UnrealScript is hard (the second reason being that UnrealScript supports so many of the same features as C++ that you might as well learn C++).

Also, the whole "lag" thing becuase of too optimized code makes NO sense.

This is what optimization means...finding the potentially visible set and only updating those. See?

A significant bandwidth optimization in Unreal's network code is that the server only tells clients about actors in that client's relevant set.
...
If the actor is visible according to a line-of-sight check between the actor's Location and the player's Location, then it is relevant.

http://unreal.epicgames.com/Network.htm

This page is from 1999 and refers to Unreal1 but the scripting information is still relevant so should the networking because the demands of FPS for networking haven't changed much either (damn you all). Finding the potentially visible set is a major component of any realtime process wether it be graphics, sound, networking or physics so this will exist in some way. It is possible that it looks at the camera position and not the model's position but can it be both? I sure wouldn't want to give up my ability to hear cams while in camnet...(Tidenburg owes me an apology)

Option C, letting Frvge (one of the two current programmers) learn Uscript, instead of taking the time to learn OGRE scripts, or what ever other engine you'd want to use.
Of course, we could always see who else shows up for scripting.

frvge doesn't want to learn scripting, do you frvge? (keep in mind that if you say no, I will xfire you "So, how's the scripting going?" everyday just like on that other project we did). If we go with OGRE, the beauty of C++ is that only 1 person needs to learn OGRE, the other people can just go around making up stuff without learning anything.

VSM and PCF are different shadowing methods that are commonly used in current generations games for lighting algorythems. Example - SCDA Versus uses a technique called BPCF to calculate shadows, which was probably chosen becuase of use with the X360

I think Mr.Mic was trying carefully to avoid saying this. Advanced shadowing stuff may screw up the effects we want (to not be able to see a spy in shadow). Anyway, this guy apparently did it. Does that seems like a lot of work?

It makes no sense why we would script entire new partsof the engine to what we want in an open source engine

If you ignored all the points I've made and replaced them with that one point, then yes, it wouldn't make a lot of sense. Your house is on fire and no amount of good points will negate it.

Oh, I just thought of one thing. Everyone is talking about the lobby but I don't think UT3 has a lobby (the one in CT where you wait for new players) and I have never seen a mod add a lobby to a game that has none already.

[Tal]

man... thats enough reasons to choose OGRE... it sounds much more professional...

[goodkebab]

Hey Over,  how many people from the Ogre forums you think you can get to jump into our project?

I still stand that having a lot of people with UT editor experience reduces required work for the programmers.

-and changing to ogre could quite possibly lose them.

Choosing UT was heavily based on this reason.

[iservealot]

Overstatement, I dont feel like arguing your points again, cuz you becme very repetitive, but I can tell you that UT3 does in fact allow for lobby change. It's gonna happen trus me.

[Overstatement]

Overstatement, I dont feel like arguing your points again, cuz you becme very repetitive, but I can tell you that UT3 does in fact allow for lobby change. It's gonna happen trus me.

I'm arguing point by point so if I've become repetitive, its because you said something I've already addressed and I've had to repeat myself. Yes, you know that you can create a UI and replace any game UI screen with that. But create a new UI screen between connecting and playing on a server? From my experinces from engines, they force the map to load on connect. Anyway, you can't tell me for sure that it doesn't and I've never seen it done on any mod.

Hey Over,  how many people from the Ogre forums you think you can get to jump into our project?

I still stand that having a lot of people with UT editor experience reduces required work for the programmers.

-and changing to ogre could quite possibly lose them.

Choosing UT was heavily based on this reason.

There's only 1 way to find out (I could make a model viewer app with OGRE if you can do some animations of him switching poses for added PR. Make it look exactly like your renders but with movement). And just incase you missed it, mappers can use either use some user made editor OR one of the commercial mappers that OGRE supports.

[Bionic-Blob]

Overstatement, I dont feel like arguing your points again, cuz you becme very repetitive, but I can tell you that UT3 does in fact allow for lobby change. It's gonna happen trus me.

I'm arguing point by point so if I've become repetitive, its because you said something I've already addressed and I've had to repeat myself. Yes, you know that you can create a UI and replace any game UI screen with that. But create a new UI screen between connecting and playing on a server? From my experinces from engines, they force the map to load on connect. Anyway, you can't tell me for sure that it doesn't and I've never seen it done on any mod.

there might be a workaround to that. not sure how it all works, but maybe it's possible for the lobby to actually be a map in itself, which you sets the parameters through a UI screen, and then when you press launch it changes the map the one you chose?

[Overstatement]

That would mean you can't see the map of the server you're joining. Also, you'd have to load the lobby for every game you join.

[iservealot]

Overstatement, you havent seen it done in any mod, becuase there are no Unreal 3 MODS!! (except for base work JaReal)

You make an interesting point abou it loading lobby on connect. I am assuming that it will switch over if you script the mod to look at our "menu.ut3".

IF for any reason you cannot, the simple slution is to create a sub directory that copies the UT3 game executable, and add "-ProjectStealtMenuMapName". Then, they will boot right into the Project Stealth menu and game mode, and not be allowed to return to the UT3 game, unless they close the game, and open the original UT3.exe.

(further more, I am sure you could even run some kind of .bat file that executes parameters on start)

[Overstatement]

Overstatement, you havent seen it done in any mod, becuase there are no Unreal 3 MODS!! (except for base work JaReal)

You make an interesting point abou it loading lobby on connect. I am assuming that it will switch over if you script the mod to look at our "menu.ut3".

IF for any reason you cannot, the simple slution is to create a sub directory that copies the UT3 game executable, and add "-ProjectStealtMenuMapName". Then, they will boot right into the Project Stealth menu and game mode, and not be allowed to return to the UT3 game, unless they close the game, and open the original UT3.exe.

(further more, I am sure you could even run some kind of .bat file that executes parameters on start)

Yeah, so I get my judgement from the next best thing, other mods. They aren't too much different, most of them share common stuff with interfacing with the engine.

I don't understand. I am talking about the lobby where you wait for other players. Sounds like you're talking about the lobby where you see games to join. Using a shortcut with a "-mod ProjectStealth" in the target line is the standard way of starting up a mod anyway. But it doesn't help with the waiting lobby because after you connect, the engine expects a whole bunch of stuff you aren't ready to give yet (and you'll have to Bionic-Blob it).

[goodkebab]

I think i was the one that suggested this to Over to have an external app for the Lobby system...kinda like what CT had between SP and MP.

I dont know if it is technically possible, but if you could do it with UT 2004 resources i dont see why not.

As far as loading time,  the UI system should be pretty fast....it shouldnt be more then 2mb of memory.  CT gets the loading times between every map anyways.

[Overstatement]

I think i was the one that suggested this to Over to have an external app for the Lobby system...kinda like what CT had between SP and MP.

I dont know if it is technically possible, but if you could do it with UT 2004 resources i dont see why not.

As far as loading time,  the UI system should be pretty fast....it shouldnt be more then 2mb of memory.  CT gets the loading times between every map anyways.

No, it's not possible. It would require a way to connect to servers and for security reasons, they don't release such information. And the load time would include more than just the UI, it also probably load all the scripts (even though you don't use them, they are still loaded) and the framework that's in all maps.

[iservealot]

I think i was the one that suggested this to Over to have an external app for the Lobby system...kinda like what CT had between SP and MP.

I dont know if it is technically possible, but if you could do it with UT 2004 resources i dont see why not.

As far as loading time,  the UI system should be pretty fast....it shouldnt be more then 2mb of memory.  CT gets the loading times between every map anyways.

No, it's not possible. It would require a way to connect to servers and for security reasons, they don't release such information. And the load time would include more than just the UI, it also probably load all the scripts (even though you don't use them, they are still loaded) and the framework that's in all maps.

once again, you are wrong.  The third party app can load external command lines to the game. SO, to join a server it would be the mod name, then some more paramters to join an IP etc. You can have it boot right into the "joining session" and have a pre defined timeout set.

The only thing I am not too sure about is how you would return back to the third part app. I am sure you could probably write an external program that figures out when UT3 closes, and then it launches itself back up or something.

Kinda like how PT did.