EMP Grenades

[Farley4Fan]

That isn't exactly a boost, that is more like fixing a little glitch.  It is a glitch somewhat because that does not happen with poisons.  It is just something that Ubi didn't notice or they forgot to fix.
 
  What you didn't understand what I wrote before:  Mines are meant to kill uncareful spies that aren't looking where they are going, and spies that don't think before they drop from ledges or turn corners.  If you are smart enough to turn on thermal vision, locate a mine, trip it purposely and run back before it kills you, you are smart enough to not die from it.  The only time you should die from a mine is when you fail to be careful and look for mines before they blow you up.  If you are running around like an idiot, not looking around corners, not looking for mines that CAN kill you, you can/could/should be killed by a mine.

Like I said before, I do not think that mines should recieve a boost because the only kill you will/should ever get with a mine is when you have an aggro spy running around, or one who is not careful.

[InvisibleMan999]

Like I said before, I do not think that mines should recieve a boost because the only kill you will/should ever get with a mine is when you have an aggro spy running around, or one who is not careful.

How do any of the proposed changes make mines more deadly to spies who are careful?

[Spekkio]

I can't remember the last time that I died directly from a poison mine. That's the only reason I suggest a timer of 10 seconds instead of 15. Another reason it's a bit BS that you can get poisoned next to most objectives and still get them in time.

[Farley4Fan]

Like I said before, I do not think that mines should recieve a boost because the only kill you will/should ever get with a mine is when you have an aggro spy running around, or one who is not careful.

How do any of the proposed changes make mines more deadly to spies who are careful?

What proposed changes?  Mines shouldn't be deadly to spies who are careful.

[Gawain]

dude you are a toal idiot. some1 had to say that.

[Daybreak]

Wow spekkio, each of those points I didn't think of. It's also probably why I lose so many damn games. WTF! Damn chaff through walls.

[Gawain]

Wow spekkio, each of those points I didn't think of. It's also probably why I lose so many damn games. WTF! Damn chaff through walls.

:D
tbh, fixed chaff would make me enjoy club and museum again.

[Farley4Fan]

If mines were completely able to kill spies who are careful and spies who are running around like idiots, then what is the point of being careful?  The reason people like me are stealthy is that we don't want to die or get detected.

And I agree fixed chaff would make maps like club house better.

[Gawain]

If mines were completely able to kill spies who are careful and spies who are running around like idiots, then what is the point of being careful? 

dude, how dumb are you???? did you even read the last posts????
changing chaff and mines the suggested way will in no way affect careful stealth players.
wtf did you think posting this crap?

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Well i understand the things you (Gawain) say the same way Papa Skull does. But then again, i'd say examples of the changes should be added to every suggestion.

[Spekkio]

I've given 6 concrete examples of where chaff not going through walls would slow down aggro, but not affect stealth, and why chaff needs to remain effective against proxy mines. Again, if you believe that spies should be able to run around that freely, then we just disagree on that point. However, no one seems to be arguing that. I'm still waiting for specific examples of spots where a mine or trap, when placed by the host so the laser is straight, is suddenly unchaffable if chaff didn't go through walls when it was bypassable before.

Speculating that the programmers might not get it right, or that bugged mines might pose too much of a threat, is not good reasoning or evidence in support of not changing chaff. Unless told otherwise by the people making the game, you should assume that it's possible to make it work right. Otherwise, why even bother making a game at all, cuz, you know, it just might not work right.

Furthermore, "It's not realistic" is a weak argument as well. There is very little that is realistic about SvM, both in concept and execution.

[Farley4Fan]

Umm, I believe I read someone's post wrong.  I thought someone said they should be boosted enough to be deadly to all spies or something like that.  Never mind, I see that the proposed changes would make them even more deadly to aggro spies.  My bad.  ;D

who said something about realism?

[InvisibleMan999]

I'm still waiting for specific examples of spots where a mine or trap, when placed by the host so the laser is straight, is suddenly unchaffable if chaff didn't go through walls when it was bypassable before.

It's rather difficult to produce examples of mechanical bugs when those mechanics aren't in place yet, as I have nothing with which to test them.

Lets remember that people have found some impressive places to put mines that do things that we have never imagined they'd do. There's one spot on aqua where you put it behind the greek door such that you can blow the mine and kill a spy hacking greek from the explosion at the doorway. Now these things weren't thought of fast, it took lots of experimentation and testing. I can't do that experimentation and testing, because there's nothing to test right now.

As far as a solution, I like Gawain's solution that quickdrop chaff is blocked by walls and launched chaff isn't. That seems to produce the effect of slowing down aggro spies, while making sure that no mine is out of reach.

[Gawain]

the problem with this solution is that it's kinda incoherent, and especially newcomers won't understand it.
i can't remember any mines/traps that couldn't be disambled with chaff in pt, so i don't think there will be new bs because of this change. it's way better to copy the best of ct and pt from the very beginning imo. there's no question that a little bit more security and a chaff more like in pt would improve the gameplay.

[Spekkio]

It's rather difficult to produce examples of mechanical bugs when those mechanics aren't in place yet, as I have nothing with which to test them.

Again, forget about mechanical bugs. You always go back to "but it might be bugged." Anything can get bugged; that is not a reason for or against including a feature in the game. Bugs will always pop up, and unlike Ubi, the PS team is going to fix them.

As for coming up with what I asked for, it's simple: think of a mine or spytrap where you HAVE to drop the chaff through a wall or else you wouldn't be able to disable it. You can find this without having to change the mechanic. Hint: I don't think any such spots exist, which is the entire point of my argument. But I could be wrong.

Lets remember that people have found some impressive places to put mines that do things that we have never imagined they'd do. There's one spot on aqua where you put it behind the greek door such that you can blow the mine and kill a spy hacking greek from the explosion at the doorway. Now these things weren't thought of fast, it took lots of experimentation and testing. I can't do that experimentation and testing, because there's nothing to test right now.

What does this have to do with chaff? Even if you chaff that mine, the merc is gonna blow you to hell anyway.

As far as a solution, I like Gawain's solution that quickdrop chaff is blocked by walls and launched chaff isn't. That seems to produce the effect of slowing down aggro spies, while making sure that no mine is out of reach.

I don't. It's unnecessarily inconsistent. Currently, no one has provided any circumstance where you need this feature to bypass a trap, even though I've asked like four times for one.