Post Ideas for appearance of vision modes.

[goodkebab]

this is just a quick mock of the visual style,  you have to understand that it is a quick and dirty sketch essentially so no one  should  assume it is the finished product or think that it is ready for criticism.  Normally these decisions are not made in public, but the UI crits have gone so well that I thought it would be cool to get user input on such a controversial topic.  Mic has done a great job so far and its awesome to hear that people like the direction it is going.

I still want to see it with normal maps and shadows simply for aesthetics and to keep a professional look to it.   Taking all of that out and making spy invisible when nothing else is,  feels like a cheap hack to me. Emf ghost is plausable because everything is transparent so why not spy?  MT transparency doesnt work for me because physical objects block visual movement -including spy, so seeing through the spy is not consistent.  Removing textures will make the spy look white in white areas, black in black areas. Only the Normal maps shadow from the spy would give him away (which we can turn off on the spy).  The only time a Spy should be look invisible in MT is when he is using Camo.

  The problem with DOF effect is that it requires the invisiblity trick to work, other wise a close or mid distant spy will show up against black areas (distant area) created by the DOF even IF the spy is hidden in the darkest shadows.  So perhaps we should remove Spy from the DOF pass, and do a multiplicative composite with the DOF in post process on top of  an Ambient Occlusion pass that is faked by using Normals and Lighting.  That way spies will be impossible to see at long ranges,  but not be invisible. At mid range, they would still be invisible because there  are no textures and normals are blurred.  At close range in bright light the Spy would be visible merely because the of the normal and shadow discrepencies,  but in shadows he would be impossible to see.


The motion trail effect is not meant to distort aiming ability,  but to give the effect of limited level of the tech that the merc has. Again,  it is a subtle effect and cannot be judged until seeing.

I know its a tricky argument to balance game play with reality,  and we have to sacrifice reality sometimes, but we dont want to lose the immersive feeling of believability.

[Gawain]

I mean, his idea doesn't have 360 detection at all, and you become invisible when you're standing still.

Yes it does, so long as the spy is standing and running. Might have to add it for crouching and going quickly too, but we'll see.

without detecting crouching this vision is fucked up.

camo should have some influence on visibility, but a spy in the dark shouldn't appear generally.

[Spekkio]

Gawain, you're completely missing the point: MT shouldn't depend on whether it's light or dark, but rather whether or not the spy is moving.

Kebab, I have no idea what you just said. Generally, I think that yes shadows should be added for aesthetic reasons, and objects should be solid for the reason you said. However, I don't think it would be bad if MT still inverted the shadows, so long as the spy was always invisible while not moving.

[B1nArY_001]

Having the spy invisible all the time (If that's what you're saying) makes no sense. A spy being able to hide in a perfectly lit or perfectly dark area as long as he doesn't silhouette himself against the background makes sense. But camo should have to be used in order to become totally invisible to MT.

[Spekkio]

Again, I disagree there. Motion tracking should detect motion. If you're not moving, you can't be seen. If the makers of PS are going to re-work the vision, then that is what they need to build the concept around. If they are going to make a spy visible when he's not moving, then you might as well just throw the old MT in the game and save yourself the work because it's more of the same.

As for camo, making it somewhat of a moving counter to MT could be ok.

[frvge]

What if camo ups the bar on which you're seen?
Most notably: normally, you're seen at crouch-running speed. With camo, you're not detected.
Camo probably doesnt work with running, so getting invisible crouch-running and maybe invisible slow-walking (??) will be the only things that are different.

[Spekkio]

I was actually thinking something along those lines. Could very well work.

[Gawain]

sound great.

[InvisibleMan999]

I still want to see it with normal maps and shadows simply for aesthetics and to keep a professional look to it.   Taking all of that out and making spy invisible when nothing else is,  feels like a cheap hack to me. Emf ghost is plausable because everything is transparent so why not spy?  MT transparency doesnt work for me because physical objects block visual movement -including spy, so seeing through the spy is not consistent.  Removing textures will make the spy look white in white areas, black in black areas. Only the Normal maps shadow from the spy would give him away (which we can turn off on the spy).  The only time a Spy should be look invisible in MT is when he is using Camo.

Well, this sounds more like a realism or common sense argument than anything else. It's easy enough to provide an explanation to that. Perhaps the merc, upon arriving on scene has to calibrate his motion sensor by putting in the terrain information. Because MT only detects moving objects, the terrain is actually pre-programmed and added to the vision, as a navigational aid. MT won't detect a spy that's standing there, because when the merc originally programmed in the terrain, the spy wasn't there. After that, MT detects only moving things. 

There's an explanation that actually makes sense (to me anyway).

But really, this is a case where balance should definitely trump realism.

[goodkebab]

basically i am explaining that making the spy invisible or ghosted in MT is lame and inconsistent.  I want to make the spy blend into the background better, and explained how to do this technically without invisibility.

I am all up for making Camo very powerful against MT by making the spy invisible.   That is one gadget that should be made easier to use.

[InvisibleMan999]

basically i am explaining that making the spy invisible or ghosted in MT is lame and inconsistent. 

But why? It all depends on how you explain it really.

If you use my explanation it makes perfect sense why the spy would be invisible.

[Westfall]

If camo is on, there should still be some sort of outline. Maybe a random blur-thin outline of the spy, not showing the spy but showing the existence of a cloak in the room that originally didn't have ah cloak in it.

[Spekkio]

basically i am explaining that making the spy invisible or ghosted in MT is lame and inconsistent. 

But why? 

[goodkebab]

because Camo already makes the Spy nearly invisible in MT.
Emf already ghosts the Spy and can be used to see through walls.

for believability  (dont read realism)  simply clamping the colors and degrading the image will make the spy blend perfectly into the environment without using invisibility.  I am thinking predator Visions.

[Overstatement]

Besides, treating a spy as a special object is such a computery programy thing to do. He's the only object that disappears when it stops, it would make no sense that real-life MT would work that way.

(assuming they didn't scan the enviroment first like Invisible said)

Is this what you meant? It reminds you that it is a computer controllered world and ruins the atmosphere.