Post Ideas for appearance of vision modes.

[Overstatement]

Didn't you suggest this before and Spekkio brought up the Steam/Jacuzzi hacks?

[Gawain]

what makes more sense, is just giving cameras a shoddy picture, making it harder to see camo

we're speaking about security cams, not about camnet...
anyway it's off topic so let's stop it or move it to the right thread.

[Spekkio]

This is a serious balance issue,  but what about camo making spies invisible to cameras?

Definitely not.

[B1nArY_001]

Camo in relation to cameras belongs in an entirely different thread. Restrict your discussion to the topic at hand please.

[goodkebab]

damnit, hijacking my own thread....oops.

[Overstatement]

damnit, hijacking my own thread....oops.

Thanks to you, we are now two topics off. So should we talk about visions or how disappointing this thread is?  ???

[Gawain]

this thread is soooooooooooo disappointing
- wait it isn't: we have a reasonable visualization how mt should be done.

[Westfall]

HIGH 5!!! 8)

[Spekkio]

what i don't agree with is normal post render for the spy visions. what the heck is it good for? spies are meant to be better at  information gathering than mercs, and it makes better contrast in the way it feels to play as a spy or merc.

You people make up some crazy ideas sometimes. Camnet, spy traps, sound reticle, EMF, MT, laser, flashlight, passive map defenses are all geared towards "information gathering" so that you can hunt and kill spies. How do you extrapolate from all that that mercs aren't supposed to be good at information gathering?

[InvisibleMan999]

You people make up some crazy ideas sometimes. Camnet, spy traps, sound reticle, EMF, MT, laser, flashlight, passive map defenses are all geared towards "information gathering" so that you can hunt and kill spies. How do you extrapolate from all that that mercs aren't supposed to be good at information gathering?

Well, basically spies have an information advantage over mercs. They're supposed to know merc positions better than mercs know spy positions. I mean, we allow spies to have the heartbeat sensor that tells them exactly where a merc is (and works through walls no less).

Thus trying to make spy visions less clear isn't even that big a deal. Nobody particularly cares if a spy can have full resolution and see everything. It doesn't affect balance very profoundly because mercs don't play stealth.

Visibility is only a big concern for the merc.

[Spekkio]

Spies aren't supposed to unconditionally know the merc's position. If I always knew where the mercs were 100% of the time as spy, and insta-frags/funny punches/lag charges were taken out of the game, I'd never die.

Also, there are quite a few times where I've snuck up on spies as merc.

Point being that both sides have to use recon to stay one step ahead of their opponents. They accomplish this differently, and you could argue that spies have better recon through 3rd person view. However, how strong spy recon is definitely does make a difference in gameplay, and shouldn't be ignored.

[Farley4Fan]

If you have to know where the merc is at all times and unconditionally, then why not just make the torch light non toggle able. 8) JK of course.  Mercs should be able to somewhat hide from spies, if they couldn't then spies would never have to face them face to face.

[InvisibleMan999]

Point being that both sides have to use recon to stay one step ahead of their opponents. They accomplish this differently, and you could argue that spies have better recon through 3rd person view. However, how strong spy recon is definitely does make a difference in gameplay, and shouldn't be ignored.

Well yeah, but the spies recon is stronger. Generally it's alright if the spy can see a merc that happens to be in his field of view. We don't worry about mercs hiding in shadows or what not.

In fact, we even give spies abilities like spy bullets and heartbeat to sense mercs he can't directly see.

I'm not saying that we should have spies always know 100% where the merc is. I'm just saying that something like normal post render for spy visions isn't even necessary because most of the time we don't care.

In fact, I like high quality spy visions just because sometimes you need them to detect hidden mines, like when you put a mine on a lamp or something else that already shows up on thermal. As far as detecting the merc, you'll probably see him anyway. If people want to nerf spy vision for whatever reason, it'd be by putting on a max visual range, not by reducing the render quality. Not that I even think spy visions are a problem though.

[Gawain]

i say no to worse spy visions. glowing like a christmas tree in emf is enough of a disadvantage.
there should be some reasons to use nv though. i like the visible security cam cones idea for that purpose. maybe some form of advanced hearing? are there any other ideas of boosting nv?

[Daybreak]

So Apparently, it's really hard to find a picture of Metroid Prime's X-ray visions, which I was going to use to help explain the vision for spies.

The vision would be purple, like in Prime, and would see the skeleton of Mercs, lazers, mines and maybe even hidden activations for the maps, in a bright red and orange. I was also thinking that instead of all the stuff on the HUD and how we could reduce it. I was thinking rather than the objectives have the box around it indicating how far the objective is, it would show up through x-ray. Thus making the spy having to do a little recon. This might seem a little pointless since the objectives don't move, but IF they did, then it would be a useful vision.

You might say that the x-ray vision going through walls would be too much like a HB sensor. You may be right, but then the vision could be limited just the way Thermal works, except still be able to see the objectives.

I think being able to locate buttons or things in the map would be a fun thing to have. I also like the fact that the spy might have to do a little recon before might also be a cool adition. Ofcourse, with all new visions, it'd have to be play tested.

Another vision, stolen directly from Prime would be something like sound vision or Echo Vision. The ability to see mines beeping, spy traps humming and the objectives maybe even mercs moving or shooting. Though EAX kind of already does that, maybe we won't have EAX for Versus. The vision, could also work for you, by having a meter or something that displays when you make too much noise, and will show up on the Mercs reticule.

Just a couple of ideas. I can't really think of other visions that might be useful.