Training Mode

[deathcrow666]

I'm reading alot of great ideas, I was thinking any of you hate how some people camp ther spawn after they know ther about to lose or just to erch you. Well what about a spawn timer like on Perfect Dark Zero wher that had like a pre thing got ther weps thay wanted and then it made them spawn, be nice if ther was somthing like that, a litte bit longer then the PDZ one but if its possple the go in and a timer starts if ther in ther for to long it respawns them back out side (under the cover of darkness and shadow away from mercs not to far from ther base so they dont spawn on the oppest side of the map lol say like 2-3 meters) same for mercs too. It was annoying when noobs or just jack asss camped in ther sapwns

[Gawain]

I lately changed my merc eq:
1. Tazer
2. Mines
3. Spytraps
4. Camnet/ or Mask, depends on map.

this only show us how much of a n00b you are, but its nothing new (to me at least).

Why dont we just get rid of the backpack.
...
PS. I know that some of you use camnet, but ppl mostly choose bp, cause they dont want to lose 4 additional nades.

wrong. maybe some crappy console players like you do that, but as spekkio said stealth totally screws you without at least one merc using camnet/spytraps.

Well that would be just one way that we could free up an equipment spot to make room for novelty items.  phospho, flares, tazer, spy traps would be used more.

spytraps are definitely no novelty item, and phoshorous nades wouldn't need to be with a boost. spies leave footsteps, can't hide in the dark anymore and lighten up on emf. by adding a larger radius/longer timers/the burning feature, it could become as useful as spytraps. you could increase the number, but i'm against spamming. we would see more variety by boosting already existent but underused gadgets instead of introducing new fancy "features" for brain dead newbis that have no real drawback.

Yea, cuz you know, we really need to make mercs stronger by giving them the benefit of free equipment reloads. They weren't winning enough games when their equipment reload takes up a gadget slot.

qfe

It was annoying when noobs or just jack asss camped in ther sapwns

how about not playing with n00bs?

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

I lately changed my merc eq:
1. Tazer
2. Mines
3. Spytraps
4. Camnet/ or Mask, depends on map.

this only show us how much of a n00b you are, but its nothing new (to me at least).

How come my eq is a n00b one?

[Gawain]

gas mask and frag nades are an obligatory gadget choice, and the tazer is not only pretty useless in ct (range/shotgun/merc moves), all other eq besides flares is way stronger. taking a crappy gadget loadout doesn't make you pro...

in general though i'd like to see a gadget balance that allows more viable eqs (there are 70 (!) possible combinations with 4 out of 8)

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Just because i don't really use frags i don't have any better option for eq to take.
Also the gasmask isn't really obligatory - i don't take it on muse/ orph/ factory/ missile, just because i don't get cammed alot there.

[Farley4Fan]

Well it is harder to cam someone/get cammed in a large or open map.  Museum I always bring mask, I get cammed probably the most there.  But for Orphanage, factory, missile, it isn't as necessary as Aquarius, Club House, or Station.  But I usually bring Gas Mask anyways, since there is always that chance that I'll be running for an objective and he has a cam set up somewhere.

My Equipment In Most Cases:

Gas Mask
Frags
Mines
Backpack


And that is really the standard equipment selection in my experience.  Ever pulled out your backpack and saw that equipment on your partners?  Since each of those gadgets are pretty much irreplaceable and render most other gadgets useless to the point where you never need them.

What I would like to see is something that brings variation rather than just the same old same old.  Possibly an armory at the spawn that lets you change gadgets or refill them once per life?  This would make the backpack a little less useful, but still pretty useful, but useless to the point where you don't need it.  This would free up a spot on your equipment to possibly make room for cam net, phospho, taser.

Any other ideas? 

Whoa this got off topic lol

[Spekkio]

On some maps I know that Ducus takes frags/camnet/spy traps/gasmask. I actually think it works well on factory, which has limited places to put mines. The other merc can use his 3 mines in a couple key locations, and that's it. Lochang takes backpack/traps/mines/mask sometimes while I took frags/mines/camnet/gasmask, and it worked well for us in the CT tourney. I would just cover the areas that would possibly require having frags. But you'd be surprised how much less you need to rely on them when you have camnet + 3 spy traps + 6 mines strewn about the map.

Again, if you're playing with a random teammate then camnet is relatively useless since you need communication to use it. Spy traps are a little underpowered, so the result is you see most people using double backpack with mines. That doesn't mean it's the best loadout or the only viable one.

As far as the tazer goes, it, too, overlaps with an inherent merc ability: the bullcharge. In PT not only was the tazer much longer, the bullcharge didn't knock out a spy. The only way to make it more useful is to get rid of the overlap, which means that the bullcharge wouldn't KO anymore. I don't know if that would be a good idea.

in general though i'd like to see a gadget balance that allows more viable eqs (there are 70 (!) possible combinations with 4 out of Cool

I agree. I think the best method would be the following:
mercs
-'High explosive grenades': 5 grenades instead of 4. Having more to start will decrease reliance on backpack). Refillable by 2 via Equipment Bag
-5 'laser-tripped tracking devices', 3 replacements in backpack. Allow them to be placed veritcally. Tracking Devices cannot be 'removed' by your partner. Decrease duration to 1 minute from 1:40 (IIRC). Timer resets every time you hit a new spy trap.
-'Security Network System' is restricted to normal vision + flashlight
-'Stun Gun' is lengthened SLIGHTLY
-flares are replaced by 'Incendiary Grenades.' These grenades 'burn' spies while they are in the flourescant (sp) yellow smoke cloud, which would kill them outright if they don't move in 10 seconds. They also light spies up on EMF for 1 minute after they leave the dust cloud. Timer re-sets if they re-enter the dust cloud. Dust cloud lingers for 15 seconds. Start with 5, refillable by 2 in Equipment Bag
-Mines are fine as-is, although the poison kill timer should be 10 sec instead of 15.
-'Equipment Bag' is fine as-is

Spies
-Fix the ability to hear 'Spy Infiltration Suit' from throughout the map
-Slightly nerf the slowdown from 'Gas grenades' (reduces reliance on mask). If you go back and play PT, smoke grenades weren't nearly as good as slowing down mercs.
-'Homing devices' are not removable by the merc's partner. Decrease duration to 1 minute from 1:40(IIRC). Device "proximity radar" works even when the merc isn't moving near it. Timer resets if shot with device again.
-'Diversion devices' make the same firing noise from PT, which is barely any noise at all
-Make 'electronic disruption grenades' not work through walls
-'Personnel stealth reconnaissance device' is fine
-Flashbangs are fine, and quite frankly, I'm not coming up with a new name for something that's been used  in 9,000 other games in the same exact way.
-cams are fine. Just remove that god-awful "feature" of going to last cam when you go to fire the next one.
--------------------------

The tracking device timers might be a little short at 1 minute long, but that can always be tweaked. The point is that by taking away the partner's removal ability, you make these gadgets much more useful again.

NOTE: I didn't include bugs under the assumption that the PS devs will actually fix them.
EDIT: changed names to show how stupid this copyright shit is.

[Westfall]

I think the replacement for flares as a harmful piece of equipment isn't necessary. How many times do I here that the mercs are far too over-powering compared to the spy. Didn't you just say this a few posts ago? Another weapon that can kill the spy isn't necessary at all.

[Spekkio]

The point is to make all the equipment viable and more balanced. Furthermore, mercs still only have 4 slots, and realistically the incendiary grenade will not kill a spy all by itself; the spy would have to be braindead to sit in the damage cloud for 10 seconds, and there's always the option to be healed by your teammate. The damage part is just going to force him to move, ie force him out of hiding, and when you do he's lit up on EMF so you can shoot at him. That's the purpose of the grenade. The little damage he incurs would help in killing him after, but I can't imagine anyone losing more than 1/5 of their health from the particles alone (which would entail staying in the cloud for two full seconds). It has the added bonus of sounding just like a 'HE grenade', so the spy can be faked out.

My point about the equipment reload is that it frees up a gadget slot, thus making mercs have an automatic backpack. In practice, this basically increases the amount of gadgets he can carry to 5. That is a clear and significant buff to mercs. Changing flares, which are 100% useless due to function overlap, to incendiary grenades doesn't free up a slot. It just merely presents the mercs with more choice of viable equipment. They will still have to sacrifice part of the current status-quo to carry them. If the grenade is no more powerful than any other piece of equipment, it's not a buff at all -- merely an additional choice. The incendiary grenade sacrifices some killing power for tracking power. How many times do you scathe a spy with a frag grenade? Now imagine you do that with the incendiary grenade...the damage is nearly negligible, but now he's lit up on EMF for the next minute. It's something to consider rather than "oh, light device...hey wait, I have a flashlight, what do I need these for again?"

[element54]

so is the inciniary nade ganna act like the old phosphor nade?

i loved those things.

[Spekkio]

Basically, with the added benefit of slowly doing damage if a spy parks himself in the smoke cloud. gmo I renamed it because of copyright. The incendiary grenade sacrifices some killing power for tracking power. How many times do you scathe a spy with a frag grenade and he runs off to some unknown place? Now imagine you do that with the incendiary grenade...the damage is nearly negligible, but now he's lit up on EMF and leaves footprints for the next minute. It's something to consider rather than "oh, light device...hey wait, I have a flashlight, what do I need these for again?"

[frvge]

Attaboy

[InvisibleMan999]

As far as the tazer goes, it, too, overlaps with an inherent merc ability: the bullcharge. In PT not only was the tazer much longer, the bullcharge didn't knock out a spy. The only way to make it more useful is to get rid of the overlap, which means that the bullcharge wouldn't KO anymore. I don't know if that would be a good idea.

The problem with the taser isn't the overlap, it' sthe fact that it just doesn't have enough range anymore.   The taser doesn't overlap with charge, it tends to overlap more with just the gun bash your merc does when he's too tired to charge or berserk, because that's about the same range. In fact, most of the time you can't even taser a spy who rushes you and elbows you, and that just sucks. Seriously, if it had some range, it'd be useable.

-'High explosive grenades': 5 grenades instead of 4. Having more to start will decrease reliance on backpack). Refillable by 2 via Equipment Bag

Why more frags? I mean it's already one of the most popular merc choices out there. No need to give people more of them.

-'Security Network System' is restricted to normal vision + flashlight

I assume you mean that you can't hear security failure messages while in EMF or MT. That'd be a pretty huge nerf. I'm not sure if I'd want that.

-'Stun Gun' is lengthened SLIGHTLY

Taser needs a big boost, because right now it's useless. I mean, it's not that I have better things to take, it's that the taser literally does almost nothing.

-flares are replaced by 'Incendiary Grenades.' These grenades 'burn' spies while they are in the flourescant (sp) yellow smoke cloud, which would kill them outright if they don't move in 10 seconds. They also light spies up on EMF for 1 minute after they leave the dust cloud. Timer re-sets if they re-enter the dust cloud. Dust cloud lingers for 15 seconds. Start with 5, refillable by 2 in Equipment Bag

I wonder what would happen if we had incendiary grenades always be instanades that explode instantly on contact with a surface (or the spy). It'd be another added edge over frags anyway, and insta-grenades like this wouldn't be unbalanced since they allow the spy ample time to get out of the area.

Only problem I can see is that you can potentially lock down an objective with these things for awhile. A full pack of 5 incendiaries can lock down an objective for 1 minute and 15 seconds. That might be too good... I imagine if you've got that close game near the end where you're guarding an objective, you can just spam that objective with incendiaries and the spy pretty much can't do anything. Even if he KOs you, the burning cloud lasts long enough for you to get up.

[neth]

doesn't make you pro...

I guess calling someone a noob and a crappy console player makes you real pro ?

Oh wait, it makes you a whiner ?

[B1nArY_001]

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