balancing of sticky cams

[InvisibleMan999]

Why not for example make gas mask default and not taking up equip slot? Everyone is taking it 99% percent of the time anyway. It will of course run out after 30 seconds (no infinite stuff), but will free up an equipment slot you are all struggling for.

Yeah, I've actually had this idea for awhile. Gas mask seems so integral to the merc that we may want to just make it a default item. Also helps newbies a little into taking gear they really need.

[InvisibleMan999]

And Gawain, sometimes adding a new gadget that has a good use will cut down on the amount of times people take another gadget.  I mean network cams as an addition could make people take them instead of sticky cams.  Maybe if you add another use to them rather than just its networking capabilities, they will be more of another option than just stickies.  Maybe you can make each camera make a noise that would ping the merc's reticule every 10 seconds, of course you would have to trigger the noise yourself though, they wouldn't ping it automatically. 

Would be kind of interesting to combine camera view + alarm snare, such that you could have the camera ping the reticule when you wanted (instead of launching gas), it'd be similar to the rattle you can make in single player. Basically it would be a distraction cam, that would perform a much more precise role than an alarm snare. Instead of constantly giving off reticule pings, the distraction cam could be activated whenever the spy wanted, and produce only a single or a series of pings, to make the sound seem more authentic. This would be more of a stealthy spy's alarm snare, since it wouldn't make any noise initially and could be used later. Unlike alarm snares though, you wouldn't be able to drop a bunch and then run around while the snares scrambled the reticule.

I get the distinct feeling that it would be very overpowered though.

[Farley4Fan]

Yeah, or you could give alarm snares a camera ability and they still function like our current alarm snares do.  They wouldn't be overpowered because merc's can easily find alarm snares, depending on where you put them.

[kronf]

The only question is what it will do to change the gameplay, will it make the merc too powerful?  Letting a merc take backpack, frags, mines, gasmask, and another gadget - Phoshpho nades? - may be giving a little too much.

You can't know what it will do to balance and it's very hard to speculate. Personally I believe we need to keep things that we can keep without change and change only what we must. Too much change is never good. I only suggested default gas mask as the middle ground between people who want to add extra gadget and those who strongly oppose to it. Not sure about it myself.

[Spekkio]

Interesting idea kronf, but the same argument could be used for giving spies sticky cams as a "free" item. I think having 5 slots is better simply because if, for whatever reason, you decide not to take the item you can take something else.

Too much change is a bad thing, but I'm not proposing giving the spies knives or some shit like that. It's simply adding a gadget. If it's that terrible to have 5 gadgets in testing you can revert it back.

As for spy traps, I think the following fixes would make people really consider taking them:
-Shorten duration from 1:40 to 1:00
-Increase amount of spy traps to 5, 2 in BP for reload
-spy traps can be placed vertically
-shorten laser length slightly.
-Spy's partner cannot remove spy trap

The last thing, in conjunction with chaff going through walls, is what I really believe negates the usefulness of spy traps. In return for not being able to remove them, the duration is significantly shorter. The vertical thing was just a cool ability that I'd like to have back.

[Farley4Fan]

The vertical thing would be a huge change in gameplay, as well as putting a mine on the floor.  If it can be balanced, I am all for it.  If a merc is close enough to the ceiling ( he hopped up on a box or something ) could he place a mine or spy trap on the ceiling?

[kronf]

Interesting idea kronf, but the same argument could be used for giving spies sticky cams as a "free" item. I think having 5 slots is better simply because if, for whatever reason, you decide not to take the item you can take something else.

Where was it mentioned about sticky cams being a free item? I don't remember reading about it, might have missed it, but thats a terrible idea.

If it's that terrible to have 5 gadgets in testing you can revert it back.

The idea is worth of testing and I don't mind that, but since we can't do it now, we can only speculate.

[Spekkio]

I didn't say you made the suggestion; I was just saying that applying the logic of mask = free because 99.999% of players take it can also be applied to sticky cams.

[kronf]

Kinda yes, but thats why I said "I only suggested default gas mask as the middle ground between people who want to add extra gadget and those who strongly oppose to it. Not sure about it myself."

[Gawain]

Why not for example make gas mask default and not taking up equip slot? Everyone is taking it 99% percent of the time anyway. It will of course run out after 30 seconds (no infinite stuff), but will free up an equipment slot you are all struggling for.

As for spy traps, I think the following fixes would make people really consider taking them:
-Shorten duration from 1:40 to 1:00
-Increase amount of spy traps to 5, 2 in BP for reload
-spy traps can be placed vertically
-shorten laser length slightly.
-Spy's partner cannot remove spy trap

The last thing, in conjunction with chaff going through walls, is what I really believe negates the usefulness of spy traps. In return for not being able to remove them, the duration is significantly shorter. The vertical thing was just a cool ability that I'd like to have back.

i think both ideas are good for gadget balance and thus gameplay diversity, but i'm a little bit worried about the overall balance between the two sides. afterall, map design is a powerful balance tool...

[Daybreak]

If camnet is not available, people will take spy traps. It's pretty simple. I've never found traps useless. Ofcourse I put them in the weirdest spots so in a given game almost all my traps get hit. Having the spies unable to remove the spy trap and reduce the time, in my eyes is not a bad idea at all.

Also, when Versus was first introduced I thought the alarm snares worked when you activated them, and not as soon as you shot them. Having the ability to activate them would be a cool addition to it. Maybe even having the abiltiy to chose what type of snare before shooting would be cool too, similar to that for mines.

[SITHDUKE]

I think Sticky Cams are fine as they are. Yes they're vital but as Spekkio said the main reason they're vital is because grabbing can be annoyingly buggy and jumps can be laughably useless. Cams allow you to maintain distance from the merc or remain in a safe hiding place and neutralize him with no risk to yourself. That kind of ability is why they're the best gadget a spy can get.

Spies Camnet? I'd rather not spend my round time setting up a bunch of sticky cameras and waste even more setting them up every time I die. I'd suggest give the spies binoculars a use and allow it to hack camnet if the camnet is active for X seconds. From then on you can view whatever the mercs see in camnet via maybe a little video window at the corner of the spies screen so you can potentially be watchign as a merc zooms right in on you so you'll know you've been discovered.

Summary:
Cams are fine
Fix Grabs and jumps
Just adapt the mercs camnet to be hacked by the spies.

[Gawain]

it must be possible to recognize snares for mercs, it's just a little bit too easy in ct because they make noises too much frequently + way too loud sound placing them (and eax superhearing, but as snares are also a counter to it it's no big deal). adding the sounds of sticky cams and camo suit would help, too.

I'd suggest give the spies binoculars a use and allow it to hack camnet if the camnet is active for X seconds. From then on you can view whatever the mercs see in camnet via maybe a little video window at the corner of the spies screen so you can potentially be watchign as a merc zooms right in on you so you'll know you've been discovered.

maybe an interesting idea to balance camnet. how about giving spies a 9th device that works as a hacking binocular?

[SITHDUKE]

Well my idea was mainly based on the fact spies binoculars as it stands serves no purpose at all. So maybe you could disable it entirely until you take the hacking binoculars or just throw it in as an addition. Whatever works  :)

[Spekkio]

it must be possible to recognize snares for mercs, it's just a little bit too easy in ct because they make noises too much frequently + way too loud sound placing them (and eax superhearing, but as snares are also a counter to it it's no big deal). adding the sounds of sticky cams and camo suit would help, too.

I'd suggest give the spies binoculars a use and allow it to hack camnet if the camnet is active for X seconds. From then on you can view whatever the mercs see in camnet via maybe a little video window at the corner of the spies screen so you can potentially be watchign as a merc zooms right in on you so you'll know you've been discovered.

maybe an interesting idea to balance camnet. how about giving spies a 9th device that works as a hacking binocular?

Snares aren't meant to trick a merc into thinking you are somewhere else; they are meant to cover your own movement so that he doesn't know where you are.