balancing of sticky cams

[kronf]

Fixed uzi ya I guess it might be ok who knows, but we were discussing uzi problem in ct. Some people like InvisibleMan999 and Papa Skull saying that uzi in ct is absolutely balanced when its not. In ct uzi problem DOES exist. There are two ways to fix it in PS, leave it and fix little things like rof netcode etc or just completely remove it. I prefer to remove it completely. You might disagree thats ok everyone has their own opinion. Having 3 weapons does not make game deep in any way and only causes problems with weapon choice. Nitro, you said we are making a mod with the best from ct and pt and weapon system in pt was better. Tell me at least one reason what was wrong with pt one weapon system.

So are you telling me that you think the rifle is better than uzi at close range?  Did you just pull that out of your ass?  If uzi is better than rifle at close range, and it is a close range map, atleast one merc on your team should bring uzi.  It has nothing to do with skill level, only how smart you are.

I don't have an easy time against uzi up close, hell no, but that is why I stay away from it.  If you wanna have an easy time agains uzi, just stay the hell away.

Go play and win aqua full stealth alone.

[Gawain]

kronf is right, 3 weapons won't give the game more depth.
sniper is better because it takes skill and can be countered (by chaff, flash, ss on head, small fov in zoom, delay going into zoom, immobile while sniping).
with one weapon (map and gadget) balance is way easier to achieve.
the main reason the "pros" don't take uzi is simply the lagg and hit animation bs pissing off every client.

[a3c0i3d]

well 3 weapons for me gave scct more depth. So maybe it is a personal thing. Lets not forget that the mechanics of this game will be totaly different then scct's, i expect a much faster game then scct. So untill we actually play this, lets just wait. I only hope they remove the sniper sway if anything.

[Gawain]

the sway was stupid because it wouldn't change anything for quick shots or shots on moving targets.

[Westfall]

@a3c0i3d: UZI PLAYERS SUCK!!! Just for you babe. And no, its not a personal problem of gamestyle. Its ridiculous to have this POS in a game intended for this type of competitive gameplay/gaming style.

Is there a consensus here, or does the idea of nixxing uzi need more justification?

I DO however understand if people want more weapons. I'm just simply stating how uzi is a failure and isn't necessary for the game. Its pretty much equal to the shitgun My bad, shotgun.

[a3c0i3d]

no, i think we know how you think about it...

[Farley4Fan]

True, it won't give it more depth.  But it will give more variety of gameplay, and that is what every game should have.  It keeps it alive, keeps interest, see something new every game.  Just decrease the ROF a little, take off the red screen when hurt thingy, give it a little more spray and less accuracy.  Then it will be fine, it will be better for CQC, and balanced.

[InvisibleMan999]

Having 3 weapons does not make game deep in any way and only causes problems with weapon choice. Nitro, you said we are making a mod with the best from ct and pt and weapon system in pt was better. Tell me at least one reason what was wrong with pt one weapon system.

What was wrong is that sniping has evolved to be too powerful. Back in the days of PT, tactics weren't so refined, so it didn't seem as bad as it is now. You didn't have people sniping you with lightning speed everytime you tried to hack an objective. Even motion whores were fairly rare in PT. The game just hadn't reached that level of mastery that exists in it now, and that's why the balance needs to be re-evaluated.

CT weakened the rifle and that was quite simply a good choice for the time, given that sniping was a lot more powerful than we originally thought.

the main reason the "pros" don't take uzi is simply the lagg and hit animation bs pissing off every client.

Um no...

When I used to host a server back when I played PC, I would tell everyone that uzi was okay and that I would be using it. Most "pros" still chose the rifle anyway. They pick it because it fits their playstyle and they like sniping. That's it.

I seriously doubt most pros who play this game competitively care much about other people whining. After all, if people whine about cheesy sticky cams, that doesn't stop them from taking them. If they whine about cheap headshots, it doesn't stop them from doing it. They take the rifle, because they believe the rifle is better and gives them a better chance to win, not that they fear people whining about using the uzi. There is just as much lag bullshit associated with the rifle as there is with the uzi. Only the rifle instantly kills you. With the uzi, you may survive a medium range battle.

For every cheap uzi comment, I think we can substitute a cheap rifle comment.

People tend to whine about every weapon except their favorite. I like the uzi and thus don't whine about it. People who like the rifle don't whine about it, but instead choose the uzi.

I only hope they remove the sniper sway if anything.

Nah, sniping really needs something to limit it's power. I personally would hope there's like an instant displacement when you switch from normal mode to sniper mode to curb the quick snipe a bit. It's kinda overpowered imo that you happen to be aiming right at what you were aiming at in normal mode when using the rifle, and that gets around the sniper sway. Thus, most snipers did insta-snipes.

If everyone is going to be a sniper and we go to a one weapon system, then we should definitely reduce the power of sniping. I would say provide some immediate random displacement when you enter sniper mode (to prevent quick snipes) and possibly prevent people from walking while sniping (or have it increase sniper sway a lot).

Possibly I'd say allow being crouched to get rid of sniper sway or something, but the power of the sniper is something we have to regulate a lot, especially if we intend to make the rifle halfway decent in normal combat (which we better do with one weapon).

[Spekkio]

For someone with little experience with CT on the PC where people can actually snipe, you sure have a lot of [bullshit] opinions on the subject.

Seriously, you have no idea what you're talking about.

[kronf]

Spekkio beat me to it.

[InvisibleMan999]

For someone with little experience with CT on the PC where people can actually snipe, you sure have a lot of [bullshit] opinions on the subject.

Seriously, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Dude, I played CT for like a year and a half on PC.

I ended up switching to xbox only because the EAX bullshit and uber MT bullshit just got to me, and I just didn't like the direction the game was going in (namely a pure aggro fest).

I used the uzi almost exclusively and let others use it whenever they wanted. The pros I played still took the rifle, the majority of them anyway.

Now, I have little experience using the rifle myself, but I have a lot of experience fighting against it. So I know what it can do in experienced hands.

Here... watch this and then try to tell me with a straight face that it's the uzi that's overpowered.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiHCEQg-Gg4

Pros don't even use it as a sniper rifle, they just enter snipe mode practically everytime they see a spy that isn't at aggro range.

It just cheeses me off when people call the uzi unbalanced and the rifle can do that shit. If you think pros take the rifle out of some good manner bullshit, then you are talking out your ass. Seriously.

The rifle fucking owns on PC. However awesome you think the uzi is... think again.

[Spekkio]

Did it ever occur to you that videos contain cut footage, thus making the player seem better than he is? Even against the best of snipers, I get headshotted on the first shot less than twice a game on average.

No one is denying that the rifle is extremely potent in the hands of a skilled player. What we are saying is that the uzi compensates for lack of skill, which is bad. On top of that it creates a bunch of lag bs that gets extremely frustrating. The latter will be fixed inherently by PS; the former needs to be fixed via weapon tweaks.

Oh, and your PT example sucks. If we go back to PT now, the spies should almost never lose a game. SS + DJ, 4 sec between shocks instead of 12, and unstoppable cams ftw.

You're essentially whining that some people are too good. Waaahh.

[Farley4Fan]

Uzi compensates for the rifle's lack of close combat power, not for the player's lack of skill.  CT's rifle lags as much as the uzi and it has a lower rate of fire.  Sometimes, if people expect aggro spies and close combat, they would/should bring an uzi.  Simple as that.

[neth]

I get headshotted on the first shot less than twice a game on average.

Once played against guy who headshoted every single time he shot - and he shot only using sniper but if he worked hard to achieve that i dont see a reason why we should nerf the sniper.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Singleshot, maybe?  ;D