Knockout

Gawain · December 13, 2007, 05:03:43 PM

the only ko thing that needs a fix is the jump hitbox which will hopefully be somewhere in between host and client size of ct.

Farley4Fan · December 13, 2007, 07:02:19 PM

How about a shorter animation for knocking him out, and a shorter timer for the merc actually being knocked out? Like 8 seconds and he'll get back up instead of around 15 seconds. This way knocking him out won't always be the best choice for every grab, but it will still leave him outcold and you will be able to leave faster.

Spekkio · December 13, 2007, 07:14:34 PM

That would accomplish what, exactly?

Farley4Fan · December 13, 2007, 07:38:23 PM

So if you want to knock him out quick and escape quickly, you would knock him out because the animation is shorter. But if you want him to stay out of the game for a while, you would kill him. Except if you kill him, the animation is longer and you can't escape quicker. You have a bigger range of what they can accomplish for you.

KO
-Fast animation
-Shorter time out of the game ( 8 seconds )
-Let's you escape quicker
-Doesn't let the merc respawn with new gadgets
-Doesn't take one of his lives

Kill or Neck Break
-Longer animation
-Longer time out of the game (about 15 seconds till respawn)
-Harder to escape another merc with this animation
-Merc Respawns with refilled gadgets
-Takes one of his lives and gives you a chance at knocking him out completely.

That would accomplish this:
You grab a merc, another merc comes around the corner, and you knock the merc out in your hands quickly. NOW you have a chance at escape but you are compromised and the merc you grabbed is probably already woken up by his partner. The merc you grabbed is now up and running and you've escaped, but the downside is that he is up and not outcold or dead. So, it's pretty much like dropping the merc except he is outcold for a while. If you have more than 8 seconds left on the console to hack then you should probably kill him. If you only have a few seconds left to hack then you should probably knock him out to prevent him from spawning with new gadgets.

The neck snap would be like the opposite. You wouldn't do it if there is another merc nearby because it's a longer animation. But if there isn't another merc nearby when you have him grabbed, it would be a better choice to kill him right? He stays out of the game longer, for 15 seconds until he respawns he is out. Rather than the smaller 8 seconds that the knockout would give you.

It's all about giving each move its strengths and weaknesses so you have to make a better choice with what you do with the merc you grabbed.

Gawain · December 13, 2007, 07:41:59 PM

omg monster post

the only thing this does is nerfing ko in favour of killing as it's unusual and silly to go for a neck when both mercs are close together and you are alone.

frvge · December 13, 2007, 07:42:30 PM

No, KO should stay the same or even _slightly_ lengthened. KO animation should be faster.

Farley4Fan · December 13, 2007, 07:45:20 PM

Gawain. It isn't just when there are two mercs you are fighting. It is also when the other merc shoots a nade at your feet or you realize you are getting sniped. You can just knock him out and have a chance at escaping the merc who thought he had a free kill. With a longer animation for both moves you are screwed if a nade is at your feet. With a shorter animation for ko with a nade at your feet you now have a chance to escape and the merc you knocked out is killed by the grenade.

Tidenburg · December 13, 2007, 08:48:47 PM

Take a few tips from DA. The animation and lengths (especially the lethal drop tech) was top notch and left CT hanging its head in shame.

neth · December 13, 2007, 09:28:15 PM

How about this:

When spy knocks down merc, when he gets up his visor is broken (not all ofc but you can see a few cracks on it).
It would not obstruct the sight (like chaff e.x.) but sometimes (not very often) it would make visions and flashlight randomly turn off, so he had to turn them on again. Nice add, not abusive, not overpowered but bit frustrating.

Farley4Fan · December 13, 2007, 09:43:57 PM

Sounds good, but it is off topic. You should make a new topic for that, it could be a nice addition.

InvisibleMan999 · December 13, 2007, 10:30:54 PM

Quote from: Papa Skull on December 13, 2007, 07:45:20 PM
Gawain. It isn't just when there are two mercs you are fighting.

Why would you be going for necks against two mercs?

Farley4Fan · December 13, 2007, 10:33:24 PM

If you read the rest of my post you would understand what I was saying. There would be other uses for a quicker animation of the knockout. Like: When a grenade is at your feet, when you are being sniped, or when the merc comes around a corner when you have his teammate grabbed. Those instances you don't always know that there is another merc watching you so you try and take out just one merc if you can.

Spekkio · December 13, 2007, 11:08:33 PM

Quote from: Papa Skull on December 13, 2007, 10:33:24 PM
If you read the rest of my post you would understand what I was saying. There would be other uses for a quicker animation of the knockout. Like: When a grenade is at your feet, when you are being sniped, or when the merc comes around a corner when you have his teammate grabbed. Those instances you don't always know that there is another merc watching you so you try and take out just one merc if you can.

Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on December 13, 2007, 10:30:54 PM
Why would you be going for necks against two mercs?

What he said. All your examples involve grabbing a merc while his partner is around to cover him, in which case you deserve to die unless your teammate is there to cover you.

Westfall · December 13, 2007, 11:13:44 PM

Quote from: frvge on December 13, 2007, 07:42:30 PM
No, KO should stay the same or even _slightly_ lengthened. KO animation should be faster.

YES

Farley4Fan · December 13, 2007, 11:27:26 PM

Quote from: Spekkio on December 13, 2007, 11:08:33 PM
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 13, 2007, 10:33:24 PM
If you read the rest of my post you would understand what I was saying. There would be other uses for a quicker animation of the knockout. Like: When a grenade is at your feet, when you are being sniped, or when the merc comes around a corner when you have his teammate grabbed. Those instances you don't always know that there is another merc watching you so you try and take out just one merc if you can.
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on December 13, 2007, 10:30:54 PM
Why would you be going for necks against two mercs?
What he said. All your examples involve grabbing a merc while his partner is around to cover him, in which case you deserve to die unless your teammate is there to cover you.

Not exactly. A lot of the time you don't even know that his teammate is around or covering him. Throwing a nade at his partner's feet isn't covering him, are you joking me? That's a last attempt at getting a kill that you don't even deserve. If you grab a merc and someone is sniping you you should either be able to drop the merc or knock him out so you can live and but he wont' die either.

You don't always deserve to die. You deserve to die if you are foolish enough to try and kill a merc while facing both of them. Sometimes, I'll get a neck break or a knockout and someone will be coming around the corner with their sniper already out. Since I have to let him down all slowly like he's a little angel I get sniped in the head. Did I have any way to know he was there while I had him grabbed? No. When I'm fighting a merc up close do you think I am going to scan the area with heartbeat before I decide to grab him? Hell no.