Knockout

[Westfall]

Not exactly.  A lot of the time you don't even know that his teammate is around or covering him.  Throwing a nade at his partner's feet isn't covering him, are you joking me?  That's a last attempt at getting a kill that you don't even deserve.  If you grab a merc and someone is sniping you you should either be able to drop the merc or knock him out so you can live and but he wont' die either. 

You don't always deserve to die.  You deserve to die if you are foolish enough to try and kill a merc while facing both of them.  Sometimes, I'll get a neck break or a knockout and someone will be coming around the corner with their sniper already out.  Since I have to let him down all slowly like he's a little angel I get sniped in the head.  Did I have any way to know he was there while I had him grabbed?  No.  When I'm fighting a merc up close do you think I am going to scan the area with heartbeat before I decide to grab him?  Hell no.

If you don't know what is around the corner, thats you're own problem really. But I do agree with you in saying there should be a release or faster KO so the spy can escape instead of getting unloaded on b/c the animation is too damn long.

[Gawain]

omg that's one of the tradeoffs of going for grabs: the merc can kill you before you grab him, and his mate can snipe/nade you. by adding a quick release or other bs it becomes a no brainer but obviously that's what people like papaskull want...
seriously, you have no idea what makes this game great. go out and fucking learn it.

[element54]

Yah westfall, go learn how to play the game, GMO.   ::)

[Gawain]

Yah westfall, go learn how to play the game, GMO.   ::)

If you don't know what is around the corner, thats you're own problem really. But I do agree with you in saying there should be a release or faster KO so the spy can escape instead of getting unloaded on b/c the animation is too damn long.

he contradicts himself.
necks are that strong that they should be risky just like around the corner quickcams etc

[Desolator2k]

In my opinion this game doesn't need to be totally different from SvM and making it complicated will just increase the build time.

All that my original posts were saying is that KO should be a viable stealthier option than neckbreak and to encourage people to use KO in a tactical way instead of just being like "Oh shit the other mercs here i may as well break this guys neck then.".

Having the mercs visor scratched is realisticish and a nice idea, but it would just be damned annoying and wouldnt make much difference except wanting a new helmet.

My opinion is that the only things that should be changed are these:

-Short KO animation time - Yes(Must have imo) - means other merc can viably save his teammate just by presence.

-No KO on screen message/cut chat - Maybe (Some chat program disadvantages/imbalances) Adds stealth.

Don't wanna do anything too gamebreaking.

[Gawain]

i'm ok with decreasing the ko animation time and keeping the neck breaking time, but it shouldn't be much shorter.

[Westfall]

i'm ok with decreasing the ko animation time and keeping the neck breaking time, but it shouldn't be much shorter.

Tell me to learn the game, how right you must be. Decrease the KO animation and the neck break animation. Its absolutely ridiculous for me to act stealthy, get a neck, take 3 sec to snap the neck and BAM, another merc is there unloading on me. All because I was stealthy that entire time. I'm sorry if you need that 3-sec advantage of animation. What the fuck is the point of the long animation anyways. Looks like the spy has an orgasm everytime he gets a neck break, then he lets the mercs body down gently as if to lay him down to sleep. Get the fuck out of here with that lameness.

Don't tell some1 to learn the game who knows it better than you. I haven't contradicted myself at all. You're just trying to act like some l33t god here, bashing console players and PC players alike. Thats all I've seen coming form you. Furthest from productive feedback. Try to be a little more open-minded about the project. This isn't fuckin Chaos Theory.

[Test-Subject]

i'm ok with decreasing the ko animation time and keeping the neck breaking time, but it shouldn't be much shorter.

Tell me to learn the game, how right you must be. Decrease the KO animation and the neck break animation. Its absolutely ridiculous for me to act stealthy, get a neck, take 3 sec to snap the neck and BAM, another merc is there unloading on me. All because I was stealthy that entire time. I'm sorry if you need that 3-sec advantage of animation. What the fuck is the point of the long animation anyways. Looks like the spy has an orgasm everytime he gets a neck break, then he lets the mercs body down gently as if to lay him down to sleep. Get the fuck out of here with that lameness.

Don't tell some1 to learn the game who knows it better than you. I haven't contradicted myself at all. You're just trying to act like some l33t god here, bashing console players and PC players alike. Thats all I've seen coming form you. Furthest from productive feedback. Try to be a little more open-minded about the project. This isn't fuckin Chaos Theory.

Yeah plus I hate the fact that when you crack the merc neck his body no more existe... bullets pass right throught

[Westfall]

Thats all still part of the animation. I'm sure with this engine bullets will be able to hit the dead merc.

Spy should lug the dead body on his shoulders and use it as a shield. j/k  :D

[BurningDeath]

Thats all still part of the animation. I'm sure with this engine bullets will be able to hit the dead merc.

Spy should lug the dead body on his shoulders and use it as a shield. j/k  :D

HAHA .. YOU FIRST LEARN THE GAME

[Gawain]

i didn't intend to insult westfall in any way as he obviously got enough experience to know what he's talking about ("learn the game" was directed at papaskull). i'm really sorry for this.

the animation after you break one's neck/knock him out could (and probably should) be a little bit shorter and his body should work as a shield, but you should get punished for a grab if the other merc is around and you are on your own.

[Farley4Fan]

I never said to decrease the neck break animation.  ONLY the KO animation.  Why?  Because you don't kill the guy AND he gets up faster than if he were to be killed and respawn.  To break a merc's neck should take longer than the KO because you get a better result if you kill him.  Granted, he spawns with new equipment, but it also takes longer to respawn and plus you could respawn pretty far away from all the action. 

What I suggest:
Shorter KO animation (Maybe 1 second or less)
Shorter KO length (5-8 seconds of outcold time)
Same Neck Break Animation length
Same Respawn Time

KO has some better use, it isn't overpowered, and the neck break stays the same ( a risky choice that takes more time to accomplish and is more rewarding at the right times )

[Gawain]

with shorter ko animation as a way to get away if the other merc is coming you make grabbing a no brainer: if his mate isn't coming, you break his neck; if he's coming you ko him. ct is a game where you have to think before you act.

[Westfall]

KO animation should indeed be less, but the time in which the merc is knocked out should not change.

[SITHDUKE]

I dont understand why jumps, grab KOs and cams aren't all on the same timer? If you cam someone you can finish a 12 second hack. If you jump they you'll probably only get 8 seconds off it. If you KO I'd bet you get around the same as a jump or maybe less.