Knockout

[Gawain]

KO animation should indeed be less, but the time in which the merc is knocked out should not change.

how much % / seconds?

[Spekkio]

All that my original posts were saying is that KO should be a viable stealthier option than neckbreak and to encourage people to use KO in a tactical way instead of just being like "Oh shit the other mercs here i may as well break this guys neck then.".

I don't follow your logic. The act of grabbing someone from behind is the same. You're just quibbling over the end result (KO vs. kill), so I don't see why one should be "stealthier" than the other. Moreover, the KO is already used in a tactical way -- if it's deep into the round and/or you grab a merc in a place far from where you're going, a KO is the better option.

As for changing the timings of the animations: I really see no need for this, other than the fact that some people are PO'ed that they occassionally got killed while grabbing a merc.

[Gawain]

finally some1 with the same opinion :D
what's the exact ko time? it should be at least as long as st.cam ko.

[Farley4Fan]

Maybe we should just have a different option than a KO or a kill.  How about a push down?  Like if you grab him you can push him down and you free to go.  But he can get up fast.

[Spekkio]

I wouldn't care, but good luck convincing the devs that that feature would be useful enough to be worth their effort animating and programming into the game.

[Gawain]

Maybe we should just have a different option than a KO or a kill.  How about a push down?  Like if you grab him you can push him down and you free to go.  But he can get up fast.

you don't get it, do you: more options =|= better gameplay. if you grab a merc knowing the other merc can kill you because of that (= is close/in sniping line/no1 covers you), you played dumb. if you didn't know this, you didn't do proper recon.

[Westfall]

Refer to other thread about this topic. Might as well let this one die.

[Farley4Fan]

Well this one is about the knockout, so we should talk about it here right?

I don't care if it is more options.  I care if you are able to release the merc you grabbed quickly enough to escape.

[InvisibleMan999]

Skull, you sound like a DM player. In story, you're generally fine to trade a merc life for life. Even if he kills you, so what? If you necked a merc, that's 1/3 of the merc's lives. If you're the type who goes with an aggro style, that's pretty significant and well worth losing a spy life. Mainly because if you wipe out all of one merc's lives, you pretty much win by default. In fact, against 2 mercs, getting a grab is probably the best aggro result you can logically hope for. So you did well if you kill a merc and he kills you. It's just better than getting knocked on your ass and shot in the head on your opening attack.

And it seems like you're saying that you need better counters to merc teams that stick together... Come on man. Mercs who constantly hang together like that are among the worst teams there are. Generally the only time the merc's partner is going to be rounding the corner against a good team is if you happened to get unlucky and grab him in that one instance they were doing a backpack refill, or if maybe your stealth sucks and they heard you and were prepared. Otherwise, good teams are going to split up to cover more ground, calling in reinforcements only when they see both spies or one spy is dead. Unless you're playing DM, you shouldn't need more help against a merc team that sticks together. Just avoid them.

If map design is done right, sticking together shouldn't work, at all.

[Gawain]

affirmative.

[Westfall]

some things he said are ok, but most of it is nonsense.

[Farley4Fan]

If I was a deathmatch player then why the hell would I want to boost the knockout?  Does not compute.  If I were to want to make the neck break shorter then I can see why you think I play DM.  But, I don't.  I want to boost something that does not deal with death.  So, no, this doesn't have anything to do with DM at all.

[Spekkio]

The KO animation is already significantly faster than the neck break...

[Farley4Fan]

Significantly?  No.  It hardly matters how much faster it is than neck break anyways.  I just want a move that would allow me to release a merc faster than you can.  It is faster but it is not fast enough.  Hardly faster.

And it does not matter how good the other team is AT ALL.  If you are stuck with a merc in your hands, no matter how shitty the other merc is, you are dead.  Completely fucked.  Why?  You can't drop the merc.  You just sit there and lay him gently down on the ground below like he's a little baby you are putting to sleep.  It's bullshit.  If you knock him out it should happen quickly.

This is more for the stealth player.  If you grab him you should put him to sleep quickly and escape quickly.  A kill is more for the aggro player like you said.  You grab him, take more time to snap his neck, and you are rewarded by a merc losing a life.  A knockout should be the opposite.

[Westfall]

The KO animation is already significantly faster than the neck break...

That is a good call. Maybe just the neck break needs refining. If you think about it though, even after the spy  jumped the merc, still take a sec for the animation to go away. He jumps and throws his arms (clenching his fists together) down. Then take a sec to get back to normal posture.