Nightvision

[Vega]

As multiple people are saying in this thread to make thermal "realistic," I'll provide photos of what real thermal looks like:




I can make out those trees and buildings perfectly.  Guys, stop trying to nerf thermal to try and make night vision more useful, that's not the way to go. 

As for Papa, your point is very mute.  Whoever said thermal wasn't for navigating?  Yes, it is used to pick out objects but no where does it say "Don't use for navigation!  That's night vision's job!"  So I guess that means when I'm navigating through a hallway with lasers that I should switch to night vision, right?  As it stands night vision is absolutely needed for vents if you don't know the map layout.  Not only that, but night vision is great on darker maps like orphanage, especially when lights have been shot out.  Besides the camera cone thing (which is iffy and needs testing), night vision is fine.

[Test-Subject]

As multiple people are saying in this thread to make thermal "realistic," I'll provide photos of what real thermal looks like:




I can make out those trees and buildings perfectly.  Guys, stop trying to nerf thermal to try and make night vision more useful, that's not the way to go. 

As for Papa, your point is very mute.  Whoever said thermal wasn't for navigating?  Yes, it is used to pick out objects but no where does it say "Don't use for navigation!  That's night vision's job!"  So I guess that means when I'm navigating through a hallway with lasers that I should switch to night vision, right?  As it stands night vision is absolutely needed for vents if you don't know the map layout.  Not only that, but night vision is great on darker maps like orphanage, especially when lights have been shot out.  Besides the camera cone thing (which is iffy and needs testing), night vision is fine.

I share ur opinion that mapper should just make the map dark to fix the problem but let me point out that on the thermal picture you profided you can see the tree because of the contrast of the warm wall... in vents everthing would be the same color..

[Farley4Fan]

It is mostly designed for locating object like mines, lasers, and mercs.  I guess you can use it for navigation but not nearly as much as NV.  NV is for NAVIGATING" through dark areas.  Not once have I switched to thermal in a dark area to find my way out.  I only use thermal for detecting mines/traps.  It's fine the way it is but to balance between NV use and thermal use it could be the difference.

I share ur opinion that mapper should just make the map dark to fix the problem but let me point out that on the thermal picture you profided you can see the tree because of the contrast of the warm wall... in vents everthing would be the same color..

Exactly.

[Vega]

Where did I mention the idea of using thermal in vent?  Use common sense, both of you, I even said this earlier;

As it stands night vision is absolutely needed for vents if you don't know the map layout.

I provided thermal images to the numerous claims of thermal being "unrealistic in CT."  Haha yes, Papa, you use Night Vision in dark areas, like I said.  However, you made the claim that thermal was not used for navigation, and that's simply wrong.  Thermal is very easy to navigate, besides a vent (DUH). 

[Farley4Fan]

What?  Thermal for navigating through a map.  That's a new one.  Yeah, you can navigate with it, but there is no point for using it to navigate.  Night vision gets you through dark areas, thermal doesn't, and normal vision you can see walls much better.

[Vega]

What?  Thermal for navigating through a map.  That's a new one.  Yeah, you can navigate with it, but there is no point for using it to navigate.  Night vision gets you through dark areas, thermal doesn't, and normal vision you can see walls much better.

This is why everyone calls you a noob...

[neth]

IMO buffing nv by nerfing thermal is not the way. To give it a use we could add new things to encourage people to use it. Detecting cones was 1st. Perhaps nv could also affect the merc somehow ?

[Farley4Fan]

What?  Thermal for navigating through a map.  That's a new one.  Yeah, you can navigate with it, but there is no point for using it to navigate.  Night vision gets you through dark areas, thermal doesn't, and normal vision you can see walls much better.

This is why everyone calls you a noob...

wtf dude you are full of shit.  When the hell do people say: "hey, I can't really see where I am going, I'm going to turn on thermal vision!"  They don't say that, they don't think that, they don't do it.  Sure, you CAN navigate with thermal, but what's the point of using to actually navigate?  You show up on EMF and you can't see some things that you normally would be able to.  If you don't know where the lasers are then that's a matter of learning the map.  I only use thermal for finding mines and such, not for finding my way. 

[Vega]

Ok, this hurts to explain, but you need to realize what navigating means.

navÃ,·iÃ,·gate
   to walk or find one's way.

This definition does not say;
        to walk or find one's way.....BY USING NIGHT VISION ONLY LOL.

When I say I use thermal to "navigate" an area, it means that I may go from point A to point B with thermal on.  Wow, amazing concept there, I know.  People say it, people think it, and people do it.  ::) 

In your first post regarding mine, you said that you can't use thermal for navigating.  Get it through your head that I'm saying you can and that I'm not referring to ridiculously dark areas.  Come on, I've said it multiple times that "Night vision is good for vents and dark maps like orphanage."

There are many reasons to use thermal for navigation, if you can't figure out any tactical reasons why then that's too bad for you *Hint poison mine/spy trap in greek.  In this situation, if you aren't using thermal, you may be able to roll through those lasers, but not that poison mine.  That example is when I'm "navigating" with thermal while coming upon lasers.  That's a CRAZYYYY idea, whoa!  Of course I don't run with thermal on all the time.  Use some discretion, just as you say "I use night vision to navigate" you don't hear me saying "LOL WELL MERCS CAN FIND YOU ON EMF, IDIOT."

There are so many examples of using your thermal that it would be a long list.  You must die a lot to mines.  Deaths caused by mines can be caused by the spy's unawareness to a mine.  Using thermal as you run along an area can greatly reduce your chance of getting caught by a mine.

[Spekkio]

/agree.

There's really nothing you can do about thermal being used more than night vision. Both thermal and night vision give you added ability to see in the dark. One does this perfectly clearly, while the other does it distorted but tells you where hidden traps are. People start using thermal more frequently as they become accustomed to the map because they are able to make their way from A to B (ie: navigate) when looking at distorted color/object quality. They do this because the advantage of seeing passive defenses is more important than looking at the same box you've seen 100x and know is in front of you.

On top of that, there are relatively few areas in SCCT/SCPT that are so dark that you must use a special vision to navigate the area. Most people have their monitor's brightness set too high anyway, which is normal for gaming (if you can see the trees outside in Orphanage clearly, your monitor is set too bright according to the color-correction guide posted by Mr.Mic on SCLamers).

Even if you gave a "cone" to cams, how many people would actually use this feature once they became accustomed to timing the cameras and learning the routes? I know I wouldn't. It's great to have for the newbies to get them accustomed to things, but in the end it's not going to make people use NV any more than they do now.

The only thing that might need adjusting is the fact that thermal vision image quality is too sharp when set to high post render/high resolutions. It's equivelent to MT being too sharp. People don't complain about it, though, because it's generally accepted that the spies are at a disadvantage to begin with.

Oh, and if you want to be technical/"realistic" about it, Night Vision is Thermal Vision.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Be funny if flares acted as merc flashbangs against spies with NV on.

Also I'm pretty sure the splinter cell NV doesn't blind you because it's a digital screen that relays the results of your vision type. It's how the goggles can rapidly change from NV to thermal (or EMF in SP). So it'd no more blind you than it would looking through a NV camera that got pointed at the sun. You'd see a big block of light, but you can program the screen to compensate and not make it blinding.

Make flares merc's flashbangs!!! i want that!!!

[Farley4Fan]

Ok, this hurts to explain, but you need to realize what navigating means.

navÃ,·iÃ,·gate
   to walk or find one's way.

This definition does not say;
        to walk or find one's way.....BY USING NIGHT VISION ONLY LOL.

When I say I use thermal to "navigate" an area, it means that I may go from point A to point B with thermal on.  Wow, amazing concept there, I know.  People say it, people think it, and people do it.  ::) 

In your first post regarding mine, you said that you can't use thermal for navigating.  Get it through your head that I'm saying you can and that I'm not referring to ridiculously dark areas.  Come on, I've said it multiple times that "Night vision is good for vents and dark maps like orphanage."

There are many reasons to use thermal for navigation, if you can't figure out any tactical reasons why then that's too bad for you *Hint poison mine/spy trap in greek.  In this situation, if you aren't using thermal, you may be able to roll through those lasers, but not that poison mine.  That example is when I'm "navigating" with thermal while coming upon lasers.  That's a CRAZYYYY idea, whoa!  Of course I don't run with thermal on all the time.  Use some discretion, just as you say "I use night vision to navigate" you don't hear me saying "LOL WELL MERCS CAN FIND YOU ON EMF, IDIOT."

There are so many examples of using your thermal that it would be a long list.  You must die a lot to mines.  Deaths caused by mines can be caused by the spy's unawareness to a mine.  Using thermal as you run along an area can greatly reduce your chance of getting caught by a mine.

OK, then you are still wrong.  They don't use thermal to navigate, they use their memory of the map to navigate, but since they happen to have thermal on you call it using thermal to navigate.  No.  In a bright area, what's the point of thermal?  Honestly.  If you know your way around the map then WHY would you put on thermal, there is NO point.  You can see the same and if not better on normal vision and you DO NOT register on EMF.  "OH!  I can see pefectly fine in this area and I know it by heart, let's just turn on thermal for shits and giggles!"  Using it to navigate throughout the map IS NOT using it discretely.

Just because you CAN use it to navigate, doesn't mean that you SHOULD.  No point to it other than to help you see through smoke and LOCATE things that are used against you.

And no, I don't run with thermal on all the time.  Why?  I DO however, flip it on when I suspect that there may be a mine or two around the corner, in front of me, or wherever.  If I hear a mine, then I'll flip it on.  If I come to an unguarded open area, I may suspect a mine or laser is around, then I'll flip it on for a second or two.  When I come to a place that is prone to mines (entrance from blue room to pirate's room) then I'll turn it on for a few seconds, turn it off, and continue with thermal vision off.

[Vega]

OK, then you are still wrong.  They don't use thermal to navigate, they use their memory of the map to navigate, but since they happen to have thermal on you call it using thermal to navigate.  No.  In a bright area, what's the point of thermal?  Honestly.  If you know your way around the map then WHY would you put on thermal, there is NO point.  You can see the same and if not better on normal vision and you DO NOT register on EMF.  "OH!  I can see pefectly fine in this area and I know it by heart, let's just turn on thermal for shits and giggles!"

Didn't Spekkio and I just explain to you why using thermal in open areas is better for spotting mines and other traps?  Seriously, you're just being stubborn now.  That's why I made the comment about you being killed by mines often -- it's so obvious that you're a noob at this game.  Yes, I use my memory of the map to navigate, but just because I know the map doesn't mean I'm not navigating with it.  This applies to maps I don't know well either.  Even if I know where most things are in a map, I still have to navigate according to traps and whatever else is in my way.  Get it through your thick head that there are many tactical advantages to using thermal out in the open.  You just suck and are ignorant of this fact that you're desperately arguing a dead point.

Using it to navigate throughout the map IS NOT using it discretely.

Once again, you need to learn how to use some discretion (definition is the power or right to decide or act according to one's own judgment; freedom of judgment or choice).  Do I need to bring up the example I gave you before, or do I have spoon-feed this concept to you?  Do you honestly think I keep thermal on the whole time when a merc is in my presence?  Use some fucking discretion and common sense -- it's as if I'm talking to a child when telling you this.  I'll quote what I said earlier to reiterate how you keep bringing up a stupid and mute point;

Use some discretion, just as you say "I use night vision to navigate" you don't hear me saying "LOL WELL MERCS CAN FIND YOU ON EMF, IDIOT."

THIS QUOTE MEANS THAT YOU USE VISIONS TO NAVIGATE WHEN IT'S TACTICALLY ADVISABLE, NOT WHEN A MERC IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU.  D-O Y-O-U U-N-D-E-R-S-T-A-N-D?

Just because you CAN use it to navigate, doesn't mean that you SHOULD.  No point to it other than to help you see through smoke and LOCATE things that are used against you.

Locate, yes, we already went over this.  That doesn't mean you can't use thermal to navigate from one point to another.

And no, I don't run with thermal on all the time.  Why?  I DO however, flip it on when I suspect that there may be a mine or two around the corner, in front of me, or wherever.  If I hear a mine, then I'll flip it on.  If I come to an unguarded open area, I may suspect a mine or laser is around, then I'll flip it on for a second or two.  When I come to a place that is prone to mines (entrance from blue room to pirate's room) then I'll turn it on for a few seconds, turn it off, and continue with thermal vision off.

Yeah, that's generally what a lot of people to do, too.  I do this as well.  I think it's funny how you automatically assume I use thermal at the most inopportune times.  I'm not the noob, you are ;).  I can clearly admit that I suck at the game, but that's because I barely ever play anymore.  I care more about having a good time when I play now.  However, it doesn't matter if I suck or not, I understand the game mechanics, where you don't.  Do you want another obvious example of when I use thermal to navigate?  Get ready for this one; when I'm running from point A to point B!  WHOA!!!  Not using thermal discreetly?  It doesn't matter, I'd be spotted with thermal on or off.  Now, if you want to be an idiot and make another mute point and say "WELL IF YOU'RE RUNNING FROM ONE POINT TO ANOTHER THEN YOU AREN'T A GOOD SPY" then I have no quarrels about it.  You can continue to point out your nubness, I don't mind.

[Gawain]

thx vega  ;D

i use thermal a lot when i'm sure no merc can see me with emf or when i'm playing aggro. it got almost no drawbacks (especially because i can't see light cones of flashlights with my 8800gtx anyways).

the camera cone thingy on nv wouldn't really boost nv (except some rare cases like cam after doorway and no visible line to wards it), but help learning maps. i don't really think is it such a good idea as it dumbs down sneaking past cameras too much.

[Farley4Fan]

You misunderstood me.  I said that just because you can, there isn't really a reason that you should.  If you don't know common mine placement or you can't see a mine then that's your problem.  I am not killed by mines that much.  Why?  I don't run around the map with thermal on, so how exactly do I avoid mines?  I just flip it on for a second and move on.  I know common mine placement and I avoid those areas or I chaff them.  Funny how you can call me a noob to this game and I've been playing since day one of PT. 

Going from point A to point B doesn't mean that you are completely noticable.  The whole path could be in the shadows.  At that point, why put on thermal?