The Assault Rifle Discussion

[neth]

No one should be banned here but the mannequin maker, tho its sometimes frustrating/funny when you spare your time explaining what you mean and then one guy comes and calls you noob and instead of saying more he just adds. "bs".

[Gawain]

i post 10 times more meaningful stuff than a lot of other people, cmon ::)
the reason why i post bs/noob/etc instead of an explanation is because this topic has already been discussed and i'm too lazy to write big posts again.

just for you in short: the 360Ã,° detection is one of the unique features of mt, but not it's problem. don't fix what ain't broken. mt should be the vision you switch on whenever you suspect quick motion in aggro situations or for hunting spies on escape, definitely not the nightvision tool with almost no weaknesses it is now. probably normal post render quality and a slow-climb move would be sufficient to create balance, but i support going even further and totally remove the ability to detect static spies like mr.mic suggested.

[Cyntrox]

(MT is) good for hunting down spies. the  visions need a better specialization, not nerfing of their special abilities.

mt should be the vision you switch on whenever you suspect quick motion in aggro situations

You're contradicting yourself.

[B1nArY_001]

(MT is) good for hunting down spies. the  visions need a better specialization, not nerfing of their special abilities.

mt should be the vision you switch on whenever you suspect quick motion in aggro situations

You're contradicting yourself.

Both statements are equally true and not really a contradiction when taken in context.

[Farley4Fan]

Instead of explaining you have to type: "It's bs" and call him noob 3 times. Thats the way this kind of people communicates.

Excluding calling people noobs (Papa isn't really in the position to do so), Papa isn't any better really.  Papa constantly calls "bs" on people when he, himself, has no idea.  He holds onto ideas (which are usually only logical to him) even when multiple people are not in agreeance with him.  This is evident with the "Thermal Vision" topic and the "Bodies Not Decaying" topic.  Not only that, but if his idea isn't accepted, he's persistant to the extent of redundancy.  

Papa, I'm not starting another flame war with you, but if it's going to come to banning people (the subject of Gawain), I'm going to give my input where I see fit -- regardless if it helps or hurts an individual.  

I've posted plenty of things.  Many threads, many replies, whatever.  Hell, YOU are in my thread right now, and it started off as productive and veered off somewhere.  Wasn't completely my fault.  Don't all the threads get hijacked nowadays?  Most of my threads have been productive posts containing things that I think would help the gameplay.  The problem is though, that new ideas aren't completely welcome because this is mostly a chrome finished version of CT with a few fixes.  I've suggested new features, gadgets, and moves.  I'm a pretty opinionated person, I'll admit that.  But I want to reach a final conclusion every time I have a discussion.  If it seems to me that I need to explain my suggestion a little more until people can see what I'm talking about, then I'll do that.

just for you in short: the 360Ã,° detection is one of the unique features of mt, but not it's problem. don't fix what ain't broken. mt should be the vision you switch on whenever you suspect quick motion in aggro situations or for hunting spies on escape, definitely not the nightvision tool with almost no weaknesses it is now. probably normal post render quality and a slow-climb move would be sufficient to create balance, but i support going even further and totally remove the ability to detect static spies like mr.mic suggested.

It's unique sure.  But so is it's ability to detect and movement regardless of speed, and that needs fixing.  So does it's night vision capabilities, even though it's unique.  I'll say the same about its 360 detection radius.  It's retarded tbh.  If you aren't looking toward the spy that is moving, why the hell should you be able to detect it?  Does the merc have eyes in the back of his head?  No, he doesn't, and he should never.  If he turns his back he should be screwed.  With MT on, he's not screwed.  And that is a flaw.

[Xris]

I don't liek the 360 MT, but I would like to point out its not completly un-realistic, say there is a sensor on top of his helmet that detects motion it would dectect it in every direction the try to dispaly is on the HUD on the inside of the mercs visor.  Again I'm NOT saying this because I like it, it's plausible and thats it.  However I believe based on CT that the motion sensor is at the front of the helmet with the flashlight etc.

[Cyntrox]

(MT is) good for hunting down spies. the  visions need a better specialization, not nerfing of their special abilities.

mt should be the vision you switch on whenever you suspect quick motion in aggro situations

You're contradicting yourself.

Both statements are equally true and not really a contradiction when taken in context.

You're right, they're not completely opposing - but they are conflicting. He says it needs more specialization, then proceeds to state two different things the MT should do.

[Xris]

(MT is) good for hunting down spies. the  visions need a better specialization, not nerfing of their special abilities.

mt should be the vision you switch on whenever you suspect quick motion in aggro situations

You're contradicting yourself.

Both statements are equally true and not really a contradiction when taken in context.

You're right, they're not completely opposing - but they are conflicting. He says it needs more specialization, then proceeds to state two different things the MT should do.

Something that is specialized can do more then one thing.  Look at surgens.  ;)

[Spekkio]

blah blah blah you're all retarded you're all n00bs you're all calling bs; grow thicker skin and get over it.

Papa has a good point in that flashbangs are equally useful to getting away from mercs. Yes, a merc can try to MT whore your ass, but most people on the PC take the rifle. The fact that flashbangs counter the scope more than makes up for it, and also gives you time to shock the merc. However, if the merc has uzi or the shotgun and is pursuing me, I quickly find myself cursing for not taking smoke instead of flashbangs, particularly if it's the latter. This is because smoke is better in making the merc not want to chase you around, which is something he's not going to do with the scope anyway. This is yet another reason why I would rather have 1 weapon than 3.

However, I will take flashbangs for guarding an objective over smoke any day. The merc will have mask on, so smoke nades aren't really doing anything. Flash + chaff >>> smoke + chaff for disorienting a merc and stopping him from getting to your partner, and the fact that you shock him is pretty much a given in those situations.

On the other hand, papa, you are pretty dense if you think that the only reasons a merc would have a vision on was that he knows where the spies are. Good players cycle through their visions constantly to try to gain as much information as possible, and usually are not going to track you in "normal" vision. This is exacerbated by the fact that you can't snipe with the flashlight on in the PC version (a bug I'm sure Ubi never fixed, since it's an ability you can use in PC/XBox PT and XBox CT).

The "if you can't shock the merc before he shoots you" statement is pretty idiotic. Lag can screw up the auto-aim of the shocker, even if the merc isn't moving. The best is when it fails after an elbow. Go Ubi.

Invisible, the "grainy" effect is exacerbated by high mouse sensitivity. You can avoid it by either A) turning the sensitivity down, B ) using any multiple DPI buttons your mouse might have, or C) strafing for fine movement instead of moving the cursor to aim.

MT's 360-degree detection is at the very root of why it's overpowered. Despite popular belief, the night vision part of it is pretty inconsequential, since the merc needs to be looking in your direction to see you anyway. The problem is that you can't move quickly enough to get by the merc when he looks away from you thanks to the wonderful detector.

Unfortunately, if you nerf the 360 degree detector, you will probably give a huge boost to aggro spies because the merc will lose one of his most powerful weapons against it. On top of that, I would see no reason to even use MT if it only detected in my FOV except to guard me from flashbangs. Oh, a spy is moving in front of my face??? Dang, that's SO hard to notice that I need a vision dedicated to doing just that. Come on now.

Having said that, I really don't want this to turn into yet ANOTHER MT thread...

Deftech in PT = balanced. Deftech in CT = inpenetrable. SS+ rail jump + no mask = dead mercs on Deftech PT or cam walling them out of the buildings once you got in.

[Farley4Fan]

blah blah blah you're all retarded you're all n00bs you're all calling bs; grow thicker skin and get over it.
lol no you are teh noob

Papa has a good point in that flashbangs are equally useful to getting away from mercs. Yes, a merc can try to MT whore your ass, but most people on the PC take the rifle. The fact that flashbangs counter the scope more than makes up for it, and also gives you time to shock the merc. However, if the merc has uzi or the shotgun and is pursuing me, I quickly find myself cursing for not taking smoke instead of flashbangs, particularly if it's the latter. This is because smoke is better in making the merc not want to chase you around, which is something he's not going to do with the scope anyway. This is yet another reason why I would rather have 1 weapon than 3.
I forgot to mention that also.  It's even easier to snipe a mercenary in snipe mode because of his slow speed.  Flash effect shouldn't be gone if you go back into snipe mode, as I think you suggested before.

However, I will take flashbangs for guarding an objective over smoke any day. The merc will have mask on, so smoke nades aren't really doing anything. Flash + chaff >>> smoke + chaff for disorienting a merc and stopping him from getting to your partner, and the fact that you shock him is pretty much a given in those situations.
That's what I was talkin about.  Flash exceeds smoke by a longshot in that sense.

On the other hand, papa, you are pretty dense if you think that the only reasons a merc would have a vision on was that he knows where the spies are. Good players cycle through their visions constantly to try to gain as much information as possible, and usually are not going to track you in "normal" vision. This is exacerbated by the fact that you can't snipe with the flashlight on in the PC version (a bug I'm sure Ubi never fixed, since it's an ability you can use in PC/XBox PT and XBox CT).
Well, I never said that.  I said that mercs have to switch to their flashlight when searching in the shadows because sometimes MT and EMF can't get the job done, even with ghosting.  When the merc has the flashlight out, you flash him.  Sniping with the flashlight isn't as useful as you'd think.  Usually, you are going to want to snipe while hidden so you can wait for a better shot.  Having a big light come from your head doesn't help to conceal your position very well now does it.  :D


MT's 360-degree detection is at the very root of why it's overpowered. Despite popular belief, the night vision part of it is pretty inconsequential, since the merc needs to be looking in your direction to see you anyway. The problem is that you can't move quickly enough to get by the merc when he looks away from you thanks to the wonderful detector.

Unfortunately, if you nerf the 360 degree detector, you will probably give a huge boost to aggro spies because the merc will lose one of his most powerful weapons against it. On top of that, I would see no reason to even use MT if it only detected in my FOV except to guard me from flashbangs. Oh, a spy is moving in front of my face??? Dang, that's SO hard to notice that I need a vision dedicated to doing just that. Come on now.
Tbh, MT would still be useful against aggro attacks, even without 360 detection.  This is because it helps you see through smoke and you are immuned to flash bangs.  If you need a detector to tell you that there is a spy RUNNING behind you, then you must not even know about the sound reticule.  The problem now is that it detects any movement behind you.  Even STEALTHY spies attempting to slowly move while the merc has his back turned.  And THAT is a big problem.

[Spekkio]

Well, I never said that.  I said that mercs have to switch to their flashlight when searching in the shadows because sometimes MT and EMF can't get the job done, even with ghosting.  When the merc has the flashlight out, you flash him.  Sniping with the flashlight isn't as useful as you'd think.  Usually, you are going to want to snipe while hidden so you can wait for a better shot.  Having a big light come from your head doesn't help to conceal your position very well now does it. 

No, but I'm not always looking at the same spot waiting for a spy to rear his ugly head. Sometimes I'm searching with the flashlight, see a spy, and zoom...but the flashlight turns off and now I can't aim. That happens very often for me.

It's also pretty likely the spy knows where I am anyway, and will hear the click of me going into snipe mode. Catching a spy off guard is difficult; catching a spy off guard from a sniper nest is even harder.

I suppose I could just MT whore more to bypass it, but yea.

Even STEALTHY spies attempting to slowly move while the merc has his back turned.  And THAT is a big problem.

Something that always bothers me is how people automatically equate stealth with slow. To be honest, mercs tend to be very paranoid. They move around and turn their heads a lot. The window for you to sneak by them in an area with a bottleneck is pretty small. It can be extended with a little harassment from your partner, but you still don't have all the time in the world. Hence you have to move quickly AND quietly (shameless reference to my enhanced sound meter idea). If you spend 30 seconds out in the open because you are creeping in slow speed, you are going to get spotted -- and rightfully so.

[Farley4Fan]

No, but I'm not always looking at the same spot waiting for a spy to rear his ugly head. Sometimes I'm searching with the flashlight, see a spy, and zoom...but the flashlight turns off and now I can't aim. That happens very often for me.
Wouldn't the spy move anyways if he sees a flashlight on him?  Unless you are just using it to light up the area and it is too far for the beam to be seen by the spy, then I completely agree with you.  If you understand what I mean.
I suppose I could just MT whore more to bypass it, but yea.

Something that always bothers me is how people automatically equate stealth with slow. To be honest, mercs tend to be very paranoid. They move around and turn their heads a lot. The window for you to sneak by them in an area with a bottleneck is pretty small. It can be extended with a little harassment from your partner, but you still don't have all the time in the world. Hence you have to move quickly AND quietly (shameless reference to my enhanced sound meter idea). If you spend 30 seconds out in the open because you are creeping in slow speed, you are going to get spotted -- and rightfully so.

Not exactly slow.  But slow enough to where you are silent, meaning fast crouch.  If a merc passes you, he turns on MT, and you slowly and silently move behind him he's going to detect you.  And he doesn't deserve to because he wasn't even looking at you.  Sure, you should wait a little longer for the merc to pass, but you might only have that little doorway and a little bit of time to pass.

My point is that mercs don't deserve to find you, if they didn't fairly detect you.  If their back is turned and they missed you, they lose.  They shouldn't have this ability.  They didn't do proper search work if they passed you and they have their back turned to you.  So why should you pay the price as a spy for doing your work and moving while the merc isn't looking at you?  That's my main bag with MT.  The other is the fact that it detects all movement including slow crouching, even with camo.  If it didn't detect slow crouching then it might not even matter if it detects 360 degrees anyways because you could always slow crouch behind him if you have to.  But then again, moving slowly behind a constantly turning merc isn't always a good idea.

[Westfall]

@Spekkio: You wouldn't rather have smoke?!?! Over Flash???? Interesting. Flash bang is great because it does take the merc out of snipe and blinds the shit out of em. I would rather have a merc in smoke running around hoping to find me. What sucks is MT. Being so powerful allows the merc to see the spy no matter what practically. While flash is a useful tool, smoke + chaff on a merc is just so overbearing on the merc.

To balance that flash and chaff are greater than smoke and chaff....should chaff not have an effect on gasmask?

I would still prefer smoke/chaff over flash/chaff. Its what works for my particular style.

[MFCISFUNNY]

@
To balance that flash and chaff are greater than smoke and chaff....should chaff not have an effect on gasmask?

gasmask isnt electrical equipment chaff grenades are supposed to just disrupt electrical equipment.

[Westfall]

@
To balance that flash and chaff are greater than smoke and chaff....should chaff not have an effect on gasmask?

gasmask isnt electrical equipment chaff grenades are supposed to just disrupt electrical equipment.

But it would work in game yea? It would actually balance things out, seeing as how chaff doesn't deactivate tazer. Just an idea. How do mercenary masks actually operate?